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"CRC Tries to Respond to Fishback"

19 Comments -

1 – 19 of 19
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kennedy tries to refute Garza

and fails.

April 25, 2007 1:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

andrea- not anon-
Johnny, stop writing in support of yourself. Anyone who thinks Narth and the ACP are respected organizations probably also thinks the wife of the slain minister of finance of Sierra Leone is really writing to them. No one has to refute Garza- his poor writing and non-scholarship speak for itself.

April 25, 2007 3:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you, Jim, for sharing John Garza's missive with us. I do not have much to add to your excellent discussion of it.

As you note, I attached to my letter to the State Board of Education the full documents from the AMA, the AAP, and the APA, which I cite. So the State Board members can read them for themselves. As responsible public officials, I am sure they will. This "debate" is really just between the mainstream health professional community and people with views like Mr. Garza's.

I also would like to note that I had the courtesy (and sense of fair play) to send a copy of my letter to Mr. Garza at the same time I sent it to the State Board. He did not, however, extend the same courtesy to me.

April 25, 2007 5:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

D Fishback wrote: also would like to note that I had the courtesy (and sense of fair play) to send a copy of my letter to Mr. Garza at the same time I sent it to the State Board. He did not, however, extend the same courtesy to me.

_________

Garza is a joke and everyone knows it. Extending courtesy never happens with bigots and homophobes.
Garza is both.

Ted

April 25, 2007 11:52 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Go read the entire Gaza letter over at the CRC website. There are other items not mentioned by JK.

April 26, 2007 8:15 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This "debate" is really just between the mainstream health professional community and people with views like Mr. Garza's."

Not true. MCPS and TTF doesn't consist of a bunch of mainstream health professional but liberal advocates who twist the statements of health organizations.

Any record of a dialogue or response from the mainstream health community to any CRC statement?

April 26, 2007 11:48 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrea- not anon

Anon(whichever),
seriously- your note about MCPS is a joke, right?
Mainstream health organizations have made clear statements- did you even read crazy Johnny's stuff? He admits what these mainstream organizations have said and then he qualifies it(making up lies as he always does) by saying these statements published by the mainstream medical organizations are the opinions of a small minority- yet that is not what the APA and the AMA said when they published these statements. Johnny is certainly not the spokesperson for the AMA or the APA. The AMA and the APA stand by their statements on such things as reparative "therapy- the CRC just keeps twisting the statements to try to make people like you think there is some validity. Their own side is hitting back at them- lock at some of the statements by Throckmorton and "I am not ex-Gay" Peter Sprigg.

Andrea

April 26, 2007 1:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andy

Neither the AMA or APA opposes self-initiated efforts to alter same-sex attraction. The APA president stated this last summer at their convention and the AMA's statement clearly says it only concerns those who are pressured to change.

David is twisting their statements.

Also, neither AMA or APA has engaged in any debate with CRC.

Wrong, David, again.

April 26, 2007 1:56 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrea- not anon
The AMA and the APA are not going to "debate" with CRC. They have stated their viewpoints-CRC twists them or lies(Garza claiming the published views are those of a small minority of the organizations- in his sad dreams). You may think CRC should be elevated to the same status as a national professional organization of MDs or psychiatrists or psychologists but no one else does.

Andrea

April 26, 2007 3:58 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The AMA and the APA are not going to "debate" with CRC."

Don't tell me. Tell David. He's the one who said they were debating CRC. I agree with you. They're not in this debate.

"They have stated their viewpoints"

Yes, they have. They're not opposed to those who, of their own volition, seek help trying to change bad desires and habits.

April 26, 2007 4:04 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me just add that given there are those who are willing to help, it's an injustice to not let kids who want help know it's available.

April 26, 2007 4:06 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

given there are those who are willing to help, it's an injustice to not let kids who want help know it's available.

Most people don't consider shoving gays into closets to be "help" and kids like Zack Stark do not "want help". Kids need to be safe to grow. They need to be protected from those who would try to force them to try to change their nature.

April 26, 2007 10:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Most people don't consider shoving gays into closets to be "help" and kids like Zack Stark do not "want help""

The TTF mentality is unbelievable. No one is talking about "shoving" anyone.

April 27, 2007 7:08 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is a fact Zach Stark was "shoved." He was forced against his will by his parents to attend Love In Action. Many teens who muster the courage to come out to their parents are then coerced or forced, just like Zach was, to attend conversion therapy. Just because you don't want to talk about it doesn't mean that this is not the reality for thousands of teens.

Forcing or coercing teens into conversion therapy causes real damage. Real damage results even when this therapy is entered into on a voluntary basis, as reported by Shidlo and Schroeder in 2002.

Ex-gay ministries are actively targeting youth through their parents these days. (http://www.washblade.com/2006/3-17/news/national/rifts.cfm) These so-called ministries don't care about the harm they cause teens. They only care about the profits to be made as they work to allay parents' feelings of guilt, parents who, by the way NARTH blames for turning boys gay in the first place. They insist each boy turns gay because of "the absence of a happy, warm, and intimate closeness with his father...[and]...[c]omplementary dynamics involving the boy's mother." (http://www.narth.com/docs/pieces.html)

What a nice, self-perpetuating money-making system they've set up.

April 27, 2007 10:03 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

ff from Robert (I can't get my account to work either)

Dearest anonymous,

Wasn't it the APA that said that therapy that starts with the a priori assumption that it's bad to be gay is unethical? The only way you can argue that reparative therapy is not unethical is that it does not start with that assumption.

No let's look at the details: both CRC and PFOX are on record saying that gay=bad (PFOX at one point had a statement on their website that openly gay people are not eligible for salvation; John Garza on TV said that lessons which are supportive of LGBT people encourage homosexuality, and that is against some people's religion; i.e. gay=bad).

Therefore, the APA opposes the sort of reparative therapy that CRC and PFOX support. Some of these folks sometimes try to argue that they are just offering options to youth, but it's like trying to dress up a tired queen in a new outfit: everyone sees through it.

These folks (and I would venture to assume you also) think being gay is not such a good thing. The APA opposes that. David Fishback's and Jim Kennedy's statements are accurate; John Garza's are not.

Do you see the difference? There's a commandment about this.

Robert

April 27, 2007 5:03 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Wasn't it the APA that said that therapy that starts with the a priori assumption that it's bad to be gay is unethical?"

Hey, long time no chat, Robert.

Honestly, I think their view, and what they mean by "a priori", is that no one should do this out of pressure from someone else's conclusions. If one were to consider and come to the conclusion, on their own, that this something they wanted to change, that would not be "a priori".

When the APA president mentioned that he had nothing against conversion therapy, he specifically mentioned the conflict between religious belief and sexual attraction as a legitimate area where it might be appropriate.

April 27, 2007 5:16 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The APA president hasn't said anything on this topic. A former APA president did.

I wonder how anon would feel if somebody quoted Jimmy Carter, and said, "the president of the united states says such-and-such?"

April 27, 2007 5:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh come now Robert. If CRC types can't even manage to remember "thou shalt not steal" information from PTA directories even after being warned to cease and desist stealing PTA information long ago, I don't think you should expect much commandment following on their part.

Anon asks I wonder how anon would feel if somebody quoted Jimmy Carter, and said, "the president of the united states says such-and-such?"

Anon would feel just like Ruth Jacobs does when she quotes C. Everett Koop and says "the Surgeon General says blah blah blah" knowing full well he only was the Surgeon General from 1982 to 1989.

The ten commandments or even simple rules of decorum don't apply to the CRC apparently.

April 27, 2007 6:40 PM

Blogger Priya Lynn said...

Anonymous said "Let me just add that given there are those who are willing to help, it's an injustice to not let kids who want help know it's available."

Wrong, its an injustice to use social and religious pressure to oppress and demonize gay kids so that they seek to change who they are to avoid the oppression and doubly unjust to lead them to believe they can change same sex attractions into opposite sex attractions when all the evidence says this virtually never, if ever happens.

April 27, 2007 8:27 PM

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