I personally know at least 3 men who are in dreadful marriages. All of these men are acknowledged homosexuals, but are unwilling to divulge their true selves, even to their wives, because of the horrific social pressures on them to be "normal". These men live in constant fear of exposure, not to say black mail and physical threats should their true feelings be broadcast in their communities.
Perhaps it is time to organize a "Parents and Friends of Ex-Heterosexuals" (pronounced PFEH) so that they can get the support and protection they need.
So called "ex-Gays" can be absorbed into a heterosexual society quite easily. That is not true for Ex-Heterosexuals!
November 10, 2011 3:11 PM
Anonymous said...
"The schools have a little problem with bullying, I wonder where the kids picked that up?"
probably from their liberal parents who will stop at nothing to stop speech contrary to the gay agenda
"If there is a legitimate reason that the school district should have to give anti-gay materials to schoolchildren then PFOX will win and the case will only be wasted money."
yes, because there are some kids suffering from same gender attraction and they need to know where to go to get help
"Is it really possible that distributing hateful literature is a legitimate function of a public school?"
well, "hate" is in the eye of the beholder
if kids are suffering and they are offered hope, how is that "hate"?
sounds like compassion from any conventional perspective
"Okay, back if down a step or two, is it really possible that distributing every group's opinion is a legitimate function of a public school?"
of course not
only worthy groups like PFOX can distribute material
"Of course not, the school is there for education, it is patently absurd for them to be giving children a message that is the direct opposite of what they are taught in class."
the problem is that the school shouldn't be propagandizing and discriminating against PFOX in the first place
then, there's no "direct opposite" problem
"This is a moment when we need leaders."
that's true
we need peter sprigg on the school board since he's used to beating back TTF and the gay agenda
"Somebody at the top needs to identify this as something indecent and wrong and put a stop to it."
yes, someone should stop the schools from attacking PFOX in the curriculum
"The school district is hiding behind a legal opinion instead of acting like grown-ups and confronting the issue."
i know, right, because we know adults ignore legal opinions
"It may motivate MCPS to know that a lot of parents and citizens are really getting upset by this."
yes, those are the bullies who viciously hound those who disagree with the gay agenda
"We hear from them, we see their listserv discussions, people are not happy. It may motivate MCPS to know that this is getting attention at the national level as well,"
oh, well that ends the conversation
"LGBT advocacy groups are paying attention and discussing what actions they should take."
tell 'em to go home
"We used to have an elite school district, one that was admired around the country,"
I warned you guys that the school system would decline if the gay agenda was enacted
"now people are looking at us like we were some backwoods podunk place that wants to make sure gay and lesbian people know they are not welcome."
talk about living in a dream world...this school district is considered so gay friendly, we have deviants from around the country flocking here
"It is time for somebody at MCPS to take responsibility for these flyers and put a stop to them."
I think we need to double down and send out a lot more flyers
Anonymous links to an article from 2007. It begins with quotes from John Smid, who at the time was leader of the flagship "ex-gay ministry," Love in Action.
Smid has since stepped down from executive director of LIA, says now that he is gay, and in addition says in his years in the "ex-gay" movement never met even one man who changed his sexual orientation.
Ex-gay movement making strides? To me, it resembles Canute ordering the tide to retreat: empty words that have no effect against nature.
November 11, 2011 4:44 AM
Anonymous said...
"Smid has since stepped down from executive director of LIA, says now that he is gay, and in addition says in his years in the "ex-gay" movement never met even one man who changed his sexual orientation."
he would say that, considering he's changed sides
problem is that gay advocates say there is no success unless a sufferer never has a twinge of same gender attraction again
but why wouldn't it be a success if those inflicted with same gender attraction "discovered" that they were bisexual and changed their focus to their opposite gender attraction?
gay advocates claim to believe in monogamy, right?
so, a bisexual then makes a choice
and what is the TTF objection?
because PFOX implies this is the correct choice? that hetrosexuality is to be favored over homosexuality?
yet, it's obvious that that is the correct choice
besides, they only work with those who have made that decision already
they let them know it is feasible
and, yes, TTF and other gay advocates conduct a campaign of bias against these people
November 11, 2011 5:23 AM
Anonymous said...
Anon has obviously never known a bisexual person. That fact, however, does not stop him from making false fantasy statements about them.
TTF is not conducting any "campaigns of bias against" anyone. On the contrary, TTF supports "a new curriculum that recognizes that sexual orientation is not a choice." http://www.teachthefacts.org/index2.html
PFOX advocates changing gays to straight and claims "change is undeniably and conclusively possible." http://pfox.org/default.html
PFOX also claims it "is not a therapeutic or counseling organization. PFOX supports families, advocates for the ex-gay community, and educates the public on sexual orientation. Each year thousands of men, women and teens with unwanted same-sex attractions make the personal decision to leave homosexuality." http://pfox.org/default.html
In that same document, PFOX calls the APA "left-leaning." Research led the APA to conclude homosexuality is not a disease decades ago. It is PFOX and other right-leaning groups that ignore or twist research of many scientists, who then often disclaim these distortions like Dr. Spitzer did in this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwE6_dLweYo.
Don't forget, PFOX was launched by FRC as an "anti-PFLAG group." http://www.qrd.org/qrd/religion/anti/exgay/frc.creates.pfox-10.09.96
And where are PFOX's claimed "thousands of ... teens with unwanted same-sex attractions [who] make the personal decision to leave homosexuality...each year" who join and support their organization's teen chapters?
"In 2005, PFOX attempted to drum adolescent ex-gays out of hiding by offering up an antidote to the GSA [Gay Straight Alliances in local high schools]. PFOX’s version, dubbed “Ex-Gays and Everstraights”—that would be heterosexuals who have never identified as gay—never really caught on. “Not one group started up in the entire country,”" http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/37762/the-ex-gay-movement-that-wasnt-a-look-at-dcs
Compare that failure to this USA Today report from 2007:
"In the mid-1990s, a few dozen Gay-Straight Alliance clubs were in U.S. high schools; now 3,200 are registered with the education network" http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-07-gay-teens-cover_x.htm
And how many of the "thousands of men [and] women ... with unwanted same-sex attractions [who] make the personal decision to leave homosexuality...each year" are in PFOX leadership positions?
"The closest the group comes to fulfilling its name is Griggs, who speaks publicly about her loving—and disapproving—relationship with her openly gay son.
Beyond the one hopeful parent of a future ex-gay, PFOX’s directors are more fit to provide political influence than ex-gay support. Paul Rondeau, the group’s president, is not ex-gay. Estella Salvatierra, vice president, is a civil rights attorney and is not ex-gay. If Scott Strachan, the group’s secretary, is ex-gay, he’s not talking about it. Michelle Hoffman, the treasurer, once told the Montgomery County School Board that “I know many former homosexuals and am proud to call them my friends.” Peter Sprigg, a director, is a senior fellow at the Family Research Council and has publicly identified as everstraight. Retta Brown, a director, is not ex-gay. Robert Knight, a former director of Concerned Women for America, is not a woman and is not ex-gay. Barber, a director, works at Liberty University Law School and is not ex-gay. Quinlan, a director, is ex-gay." http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/37762/the-ex-gay-movement-that-wasnt-a-look-at-dcs
November 11, 2011 9:11 AM
Anonymous said...
I am ever so sorry "Anonymous" that you are in the tiny minority who spreads falsehoods and is uncomfortable with the subject of sex: "probably from their liberal parents who will stop at nothing to stop speech contrary to the gay agenda"
We would be interested in seeing the source of this pathetic comment: "there are some kids suffering from same gender attraction and they need to know where to go to get help." Please share with us the studies and surveys you have access to that would convince others to accept this outright lie.
The only "evidence" that is ever presented that one can become an "ex-gay" is the suspect information released by groups like "PFOX". What they fail to highlight in the "cure" is that nothing works to change the poor, unfortunate, and disoriented individuals who buy into their offer of "help" but their Christian Bible and their particular religious conceits. Oh, well.
"only worthy groups like PFOX can distribute material". Perhaps you could give convincing evidence that PFOX is a "worthy group". To quote you, that would be "in the eye of the beholder".
Tchaikovsky
November 11, 2011 1:22 PM
[ Note: I don't usually repost old blogs, but this morning I looked at our log and found literally hundreds of hits to THIS post from February, 2010, mostly coming from MCPS computers all over the county. Montgomery County Schools are sending out flyers again (dates posted HERE), and it appears that school staff are concerned.
A few weeks ago, MCPS Superintendent Josh Starr emailed me and said, regarding a letter sent to PFOX citizens advisory committee representative Peter Sprigg, "In no way shape or form do I condone how it's being used, nor do I agree with his stance or that of his group. In fact, I am on the opposite side of the spectrum." Blogged HERE.
Below is the entire post from February 14, 2010. ]
Time for MCPS to Take Responsibility
PFOX (Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays) is an organization that sues people to protect the rights of those chimerical people who have decided not to be gay any more -- "ex-gays." The organization consists basically of Regina Griggs, who has a gay son and who wishes with all her heart that people could just change their sexual orientation. There is a board of directors, which includes our county's Peter Sprigg, who believes that homosexual behavior should be against the law, and PFOX has some friends, including a few in our county.
A few years ago, PFOX began exploiting a legal loophole which enabled them to get Montgomery County Public Schools to distribute their anti-gay literature to students. An evangelical organization had sued the school district because they wouldn't pass out the group's flyers. The school district thought it would be be a violation of the Constitution's Establishment clause, forbidding government promotion of religion, and the group said refusing was a violation of the Free Speech section, and the group won in court. Suddenly a school's decision about whether to distribute someone's flyers became a legal issue, and the district came up with a policy that said that they would distribute any flyer that met certain criteria. Besides school announcements, the PTA, and on-campus clubs, the schools would distribute flyers put out by nonprofit organizations if the flyer had a disclaimer on it and was not hate literature. PFOX is a nonprofit, and they saw the opportunity to recruit gay teenagers through the schools.
At first everybody just shrugged and said, well, they have the right to express themselves, this is fair, etcetera. Some schools set up special trash cans on PFOX flyer days, which coincided with report cards, so students could throw their anti-gay materials out immediately. All the same, school staff spent time handling the flyers, classroom time was taken to hand them out. The information on the flyers was in direct contradiction to the health curriculum, it was in direct contradiction to the schools' antidiscrimination policies, but taxpayer-paid staff spent work time, and students spent time that could have been used for learning, on the flyers.
A couple of weeks ago the flyers went out again, and now people in the county are getting fed up with it. Hateful groups like PFOX exist, we know that, the question is why are the schools giving our county's kids their literature?
This week PFOX stepped up its counteroffense. World Net Daily gives PFOX's side of it: A campaign has been launched in Montgomery County, Md., to classify the speech of advocates for people who choose to leave the homosexual lifestyle as "hate speech," which then could be banned under a new law signed last year by President Obama.
"Hate speech is unwelcome in Montgomery County Public Schools," said an e-mail to the offices of Regina Griggs, national director of Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays & Gays, known as PFOX. "I would like to ask that you immediately cease distribution of your flyers at our public schools.
"We intend to pursue every method possible to protest your actions if you choose to continue," the message warned. Christian speech targeted as 'hate': 'Gays' pledge to 'pursue every method' of protesting school flyers This is great. If this had been a real newspaper, the story would have started with "Somebody sent PFOX an email message ..." World Net Daily, though, presents it as if a communique from the Gay People's Party had been released. They never do tell you who the email was from, it could have been anybody. One email equals "a campaign."
This article describes PFOX as "advocates for people who choose to leave the homosexual lifestyle." First of all, can you tell me what a "lifestyle" is? Can you tell me why "gay" is put in quotes? Have you ever heard of a person who chose to "leave the homosexual lifestyle" and did it? Is there some reason that someone like that needs an advocate -- they're straight now, what's the big deal? The ex-gay frame is a cruel hoax to make you think that gay people have chosen their sexual orientation and can choose to change it, with the subtle message between the lines that they should change their sexual orientation. Really, if change is possible, doesn't that mean that straight people can become gay, too? PFOX only advocates change in one direction. The important truth is that some people naturally have feelings for members of their own sex, nobody knows why really, it's just a statistical fact that some proportion of the population will feel that way. If there are "ex-gays," none of them apparently live in the Washington DC area.
PFOX is gearing up for the inevitable. There is pressure to have them classified as a hate group, officially. And while they have the Constitutional freedom to say what they do, if it is classified as hate speech the school district has a reason to refuse to distribute their materials. (And by the way, regardless of what WND says, the nation's new hate crime law has nothing to do with it, that will only apply when violence has been done.)
PFOX is walking a fine line here, their hateful message is disguised in a clever way, they say they are parents and friends of gay people right in their name, for crying out loud! They just want to help unhappy people stop doing unhealthy things, don't ya know? And all those thousands of people who have "left the homosexual lifestyle," who will speak for them? This is fine-tuned passive aggression, they can say that all they want to do is help quote-gay-unquote people but they are no gay person's friend. The ordinary citizen walking around doesn't understand how any of this works, it sounds plausible, what with AIDS and all, that somebody would want to stop being gay. But there is no question about it, PFOX's message is intended to undermine the rights of LGBT people, to turn the love they feel for their partners into a dirty thing, a feeling you wouldn't want to have. For straight people, an important component of the message is that gay people have chosen to be that way.
The school district might be backed into a legal corner, and they might not. If the flyers can be classified as hate speech then the schools don't have to hand them out -- but who does the classifying? Ah, the answer there is easier than you'd think -- some responsible person classifies it. Maybe the school district's legal department issues a decision, maybe the Superintendent looks at the flyers and says it is hate speech, maybe the school board discusses it and classifies the literature as hateful. A responsible person, that's what we're looking for.
The problem is not that PFOX is saying these things, there have always been people saying these things. The problem is that our taxpayer-supported public schools are delivering this message to our county's children. We entrust the lives and minds of our kids to the school from the moment they get on the bus until the moment they get off it again, and we expect them to be safe from physical and psychological danger, we trust the schools to enlighten their minds through education. And the school district is giving them intellectual poison.
I know what the solution is here, but I don't expect anybody in the school system to go for it. At the bottom of every flyer is a disclaimer like this: (These materials are neither sponsored nor endorsed by the Board of Education of Montgomery County, the superintendent, or this school.) I say, take the disclaimer off. The school should only distribute information that it endorses. Let them be responsible for their actions.
Let the school principal, the Board of Education, the Superintendent of Schools, and home-room teachers be responsible for what they give the children. Consider the quotes from principals who have said things like "If I had my druthers, [the flier] would not have gone out." Why is the principal not held responsible for the literature his school is giving to the students entrusted to him? Give the guy his druthers! Take the disclaimer off all the flyers, and let the school district take responsibility for the information it is giving to our students.
Ah, you say, they're afraid of lawsuits. Yes, there is an inevitable lawsuit if they refuse to distribute the PFOX hate literature. The schools have a little problem with bullying, I wonder where the kids picked that up? Okay, PFOX is going to sue, the school district will have to fight back. If there is a legitimate reason that the school district should have to give anti-gay materials to schoolchildren then PFOX will win and the case will only be wasted money. Is it really possible that distributing hateful literature is a legitimate function of a public school? Okay, back if down a step or two, is it really possible that distributing every group's opinion is a legitimate function of a public school? Of course not, the school is there for education, it is patently absurd for them to be giving children a message that is the direct opposite of what they are taught in class.
This is a moment when we need leaders. Somebody at the top needs to identify this as something indecent and wrong and put a stop to it. The school district is hiding behind a legal opinion instead of acting like grown-ups and confronting the issue.
It may motivate MCPS to know that a lot of parents and citizens are really getting upset by this. We hear from them, we see their listserv discussions, people are not happy. It may motivate MCPS to know that this is getting attention at the national level as well, LGBT advocacy groups are paying attention and discussing what actions they should take. We used to have an elite school district, one that was admired around the country, now people are looking at us like we were some backwoods podunk place that wants to make sure gay and lesbian people know they are not welcome.
It is time for somebody at MCPS to take responsibility for these flyers and put a stop to them.
"Repost: Time for MCPS to Take Responsibility"
7 Comments -
I personally know at least 3 men who are in dreadful marriages. All of these men are acknowledged homosexuals, but are unwilling to divulge their true selves, even to their wives, because of the horrific social pressures on them to be "normal". These men live in constant fear of exposure, not to say black mail and physical threats should their true feelings be broadcast in their communities.
Perhaps it is time to organize a "Parents and Friends of Ex-Heterosexuals" (pronounced PFEH) so that they can get the support and protection they need.
So called "ex-Gays" can be absorbed into a heterosexual society quite easily. That is not true for Ex-Heterosexuals!
November 10, 2011 3:11 PM
"The schools have a little problem with bullying, I wonder where the kids picked that up?"
probably from their liberal parents who will stop at nothing to stop speech contrary to the gay agenda
"If there is a legitimate reason that the school district should have to give anti-gay materials to schoolchildren then PFOX will win and the case will only be wasted money."
yes, because there are some kids suffering from same gender attraction and they need to know where to go to get help
"Is it really possible that distributing hateful literature is a legitimate function of a public school?"
well, "hate" is in the eye of the beholder
if kids are suffering and they are offered hope, how is that "hate"?
sounds like compassion from any conventional perspective
"Okay, back if down a step or two, is it really possible that distributing every group's opinion is a legitimate function of a public school?"
of course not
only worthy groups like PFOX can distribute material
"Of course not, the school is there for education, it is patently absurd for them to be giving children a message that is the direct opposite of what they are taught in class."
the problem is that the school shouldn't be propagandizing and discriminating against PFOX in the first place
then, there's no "direct opposite" problem
"This is a moment when we need leaders."
that's true
we need peter sprigg on the school board since he's used to beating back TTF and the gay agenda
"Somebody at the top needs to identify this as something indecent and wrong and put a stop to it."
yes, someone should stop the schools from attacking PFOX in the curriculum
"The school district is hiding behind a legal opinion instead of acting like grown-ups and confronting the issue."
i know, right, because we know adults ignore legal opinions
"It may motivate MCPS to know that a lot of parents and citizens are really getting upset by this."
yes, those are the bullies who viciously hound those who disagree with the gay agenda
"We hear from them, we see their listserv discussions, people are not happy. It may motivate MCPS to know that this is getting attention at the national level as well,"
oh, well that ends the conversation
"LGBT advocacy groups are paying attention and discussing what actions they should take."
tell 'em to go home
"We used to have an elite school district, one that was admired around the country,"
I warned you guys that the school system would decline if the gay agenda was enacted
"now people are looking at us like we were some backwoods podunk place that wants to make sure gay and lesbian people know they are not welcome."
talk about living in a dream world...this school district is considered so gay friendly, we have deviants from around the country flocking here
"It is time for somebody at MCPS to take responsibility for these flyers and put a stop to them."
I think we need to double down and send out a lot more flyers
November 10, 2011 9:05 PM
Straight Like Me
'Ex-Gay' Movement Making Strides
Read it here
November 10, 2011 9:26 PM
Anonymous links to an article from 2007. It begins with quotes from John Smid, who at the time was leader of the flagship "ex-gay ministry," Love in Action.
Smid has since stepped down from executive director of LIA, says now that he is gay, and in addition says in his years in the "ex-gay" movement never met even one man who changed his sexual orientation.
Ex-gay movement making strides? To me, it resembles Canute ordering the tide to retreat: empty words that have no effect against nature.
November 11, 2011 4:44 AM
"Smid has since stepped down from executive director of LIA, says now that he is gay, and in addition says in his years in the "ex-gay" movement never met even one man who changed his sexual orientation."
he would say that, considering he's changed sides
problem is that gay advocates say there is no success unless a sufferer never has a twinge of same gender attraction again
but why wouldn't it be a success if those inflicted with same gender attraction "discovered" that they were bisexual and changed their focus to their opposite gender attraction?
gay advocates claim to believe in monogamy, right?
so, a bisexual then makes a choice
and what is the TTF objection?
because PFOX implies this is the correct choice? that hetrosexuality is to be favored over homosexuality?
yet, it's obvious that that is the correct choice
besides, they only work with those who have made that decision already
they let them know it is feasible
and, yes, TTF and other gay advocates conduct a campaign of bias against these people
November 11, 2011 5:23 AM
Anon has obviously never known a bisexual person. That fact, however, does not stop him from making false fantasy statements about them.
TTF is not conducting any "campaigns of bias against" anyone. On the contrary, TTF supports "a new curriculum that recognizes that sexual orientation is not a choice."
http://www.teachthefacts.org/index2.html
PFOX advocates changing gays to straight and claims "change is undeniably and conclusively possible."
http://pfox.org/default.html
PFOX also claims it "is not a therapeutic or counseling organization. PFOX supports families, advocates for the ex-gay community, and educates the public on sexual orientation. Each year thousands of men, women and teens with unwanted same-sex attractions make the personal decision to leave homosexuality."
http://pfox.org/default.html
In that same document, PFOX calls the APA "left-leaning." Research led the APA to conclude homosexuality is not a disease decades ago. It is PFOX and other right-leaning groups that ignore or twist research of many scientists, who then often disclaim these distortions like Dr. Spitzer did in this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwE6_dLweYo.
Don't forget, PFOX was launched by FRC as an "anti-PFLAG group."
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/religion/anti/exgay/frc.creates.pfox-10.09.96
And where are PFOX's claimed "thousands of ... teens with unwanted same-sex attractions [who] make the personal decision to leave homosexuality...each year" who join and support their organization's teen chapters?
"In 2005, PFOX attempted to drum adolescent ex-gays out of hiding by offering up an antidote to the GSA [Gay Straight Alliances in local high schools]. PFOX’s version, dubbed “Ex-Gays and Everstraights”—that would be heterosexuals who have never identified as gay—never really caught on. “Not one group started up in the entire country,”"
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/37762/the-ex-gay-movement-that-wasnt-a-look-at-dcs
Compare that failure to this USA Today report from 2007:
"In the mid-1990s, a few dozen Gay-Straight Alliance clubs were in U.S. high schools; now 3,200 are registered with the education network"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-07-gay-teens-cover_x.htm
And how many of the "thousands of men [and] women ... with unwanted same-sex attractions [who] make the personal decision to leave homosexuality...each year" are in PFOX leadership positions?
"The closest the group comes to fulfilling its name is Griggs, who speaks publicly about her loving—and disapproving—relationship with her openly gay son.
Beyond the one hopeful parent of a future ex-gay, PFOX’s directors are more fit to provide political influence than ex-gay support. Paul Rondeau, the group’s president, is not ex-gay. Estella Salvatierra, vice president, is a civil rights attorney and is not ex-gay. If Scott Strachan, the group’s secretary, is ex-gay, he’s not talking about it. Michelle Hoffman, the treasurer, once told the Montgomery County School Board that “I know many former homosexuals and am proud to call them my friends.” Peter Sprigg, a director, is a senior fellow at the Family Research Council and has publicly identified as everstraight. Retta Brown, a director, is not ex-gay. Robert Knight, a former director of Concerned Women for America, is not a woman and is not ex-gay. Barber, a director, works at Liberty University Law School and is not ex-gay. Quinlan, a director, is ex-gay."
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/37762/the-ex-gay-movement-that-wasnt-a-look-at-dcs
November 11, 2011 9:11 AM
I am ever so sorry "Anonymous" that you are in the tiny minority who spreads falsehoods and is uncomfortable with the subject of sex: "probably from their liberal parents who will stop at nothing to stop speech contrary to the gay agenda"
We would be interested in seeing the source of this pathetic comment: "there are some kids suffering from same gender attraction and they need to know where to go to get help." Please share with us the studies and surveys you have access to that would convince others to accept this outright lie.
The only "evidence" that is ever presented that one can become an "ex-gay" is the suspect information released by groups like "PFOX". What they fail to highlight in the "cure" is that nothing works to change the poor, unfortunate, and disoriented individuals who buy into their offer of "help" but their Christian Bible and their particular religious conceits. Oh, well.
"only worthy groups like PFOX can distribute material". Perhaps you could give convincing evidence that PFOX is a "worthy group". To quote you, that would be "in the eye of the beholder".
Tchaikovsky
November 11, 2011 1:22 PM