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Post a Comment On: Steve Sailer: iSteve

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Anonymous SFG said...

Steve, you're saying that Condi and Rummy thought this because they weren't racist enough? Maybe, like 90% of human beings, they believed what they wanted to believe?

5/2/07, 3:40 AM

Anonymous Marty said...

"And groups that tend to be anarchic during peacetime also tend to be incompetent at organized violence during wartime, with the Iraqis being perhaps the most notorious example of this."

Not to mention the Italians in the First Italo–Ethiopian War. Ethiopia was lucky to be attacked by such incompetents.

5/2/07, 3:47 AM

Anonymous Lester Northby said...

Steve, it seems even your boy Thomas Sowell bought into the Werewolf myth:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200512150003

5/2/07, 4:38 AM

Anonymous Theresa said...

WERWOLF!
The History of the National Socialist Guerrilla Movement 1944-1946

http://www.uwp.co.uk/book_desc/1446.html

Dr. P. Biddiscombe

http://web.uvic.ca/history/faculty/biddiscombe.html

5/2/07, 5:05 AM

Anonymous jody said...

there really are no similarities between iraq and japan or germany. it's kind of insulting that the bush administration would even liken them. as if we needed any more evidence that they have no idea what they're talkng about.

5/2/07, 5:39 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The whole spurious Germany:Iraq comparison on the lips of Condoleeza Rice is just more evidence for those who say this whole war effort was really all about "saving Israel" all along. Same for the "Islamo-Fascist" meme on the lips of every Fox News anchorman.

No idea whether these efforts hurt or help Israel. But more importantly, what do these campaigns have to do with US strategic interests?

5/2/07, 6:36 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Statements like 'no blood for socialism' are obviously satire. However, postwar Nazi resistance was a main subject of Lars von Triers' movie _Zentropa_, ('91, aka _Europa_ -- odd (& recommended, btw)) They were also called 'werewolves' in that movie, so I suspect there's some historical truth to the name for such a group or groups. Obviously they didn't have much impact, but it would be interesting to dig up what's really known historicallyabout them.

5/2/07, 8:38 AM

Anonymous Scholesy said...

In the 2000 film Nuremberg, reference is made to American soldiers in jeeps having been decapitated by wire traps set across roads. I can't remember if the name Werewolf is invoked, but I'm wondering if there's any historical basis to the allegation.

5/2/07, 11:32 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have you ever heard of the industrial revolution?

5/2/07, 12:03 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Steve --

Your BDS is showing. Yes the occupation of Iraq was poorly run, but everyone in the Administration had reason for optimism and to not listen to critics.

Critics had predicted disaster and American forces being wiped out shortly before Kabul fell in Afghanistan. Rummy that strategic idiot went fast and light in Afghanistan and thus used speed and tribal auxiliaries to outflank and destroy the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, while avoiding logistical nightmare that doomed Russian and British expeditions in the past.

Rummy had destroyed Saddam's still formidable army in three weeks and the "Stalingrad in Baghdad" turned out to be a no-show despite all the predictions from the critics.

So, given their miserable track record in all things military, no wonder they were not listened to.

And the Werewolves were real. They did kill American soldiers in ones-ies and two-sies as documented in Ambrose and Studs Terkels books. They were never a serious threat, mostly as you note because of the Soviet Threat.

Werewolves were more a factor in Soviet controlled areas. The Soviets finally responded by killing all the men in a small town after a number of their soldiers had been killed and mutilated by Werewolves. The French in their zone conducted numerous firing squad executions after similar incidents, as did the Americans.

But Steve you are willfully ignoring the significant difference between the Japanese and Germans and IRAQ:

Iraqis have STATE SPONSORED ALLIES and STATE SAFE HAVENS. To wit: Iran and Syria. Iran and Syria provide men, materials, training, money, and safe havens to the terrorists, the Iranians helping in all areas BOTH Shia and Sunnis to stir the pot, make the US leave, and carve up Iraq to their benefit.

Japanese and Germans had no states right next door, with porous borders, and regimes that were both untouchable and able and willing to help fund, train, arm, and conduct terrorist attacks on the occupying forces.

We would have EXACTLY the same thing if we'd left say, Mussolini alone and never invaded him, along with Vichy France being bypassed.

What made our victory complete and the Werewolves a non-factor was not racial or cultural differences Steve but the complete lack of hostile states willing to challenge the victorious Allies.

Lesson: when you go to war destroy your enemies totally. Half measures makes things worse.

5/2/07, 1:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think there is any evidence that Simberg's piece is the source of Rice's and Rumsfeld's misleading assertions.

Your hypothesis: They read a pretty clearly satirical piece, thought it was real, and gave speeches about it.

My hypothesis: They took a granule of truth from history books and tried to make a larger case about it.

Use Occam's razor.

Either way, their statements are wrong, but in the absence of evidence that they based their assertions on this one blog, I think you have to assume it's more likely they were simply "revising and extending" history texts. This is even more likely because there is no reference to the article in their own texts.

5/2/07, 3:04 PM

Anonymous David Davenport said...

"And groups that tend to be anarchic during peacetime also tend to be incompetent at organized violence during wartime, with the Iraqis being perhaps the most notorious example of this."

I can think of a big 20th century counterexample to that one. China was in a state of civil war and anarchy during WWII, with Nationalists and Communists fighting themselves as well as the Japanese in quasi-guerrilla fashion. The Chinese were not able to drive the Japanese out of China.

That's one of the basic reasons why General Doug's ass M. thought US armed forces could easily whip the ChiComs if they dared to cross the Yalu River.

5/2/07, 6:04 PM

Anonymous SFG said...

Iffy. Even the most organized group can have a civil war, which is what the Nationalist-Communist conflict was. And China has a long history of organization and bureaucracy, perhaps the longest on earth.

5/2/07, 6:09 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In his memoir, A Third Face, World War Two veteran and former Hollywood director, Sam Fuller, writes about the making of his 1958 film Verboten!.
The film does reference the Werewolves of postwar Germany:
"My yarn was ripped from the headlines of that time. In the postwar period, the threat of a renaissance of the Nazi movement was very real. Young Hitlerian extremists had formed secret gangs. Nazism was outlawed so the gangs went underground. They were controlled by veterans who refused to acknowledge defeat."
Fuller, Samuel. 2002. A Third Face. Alfred A. Knopf

5/2/07, 6:55 PM

Anonymous jody said...

it's more simple than that. japan and germany are just nothing like iraq in any way.

in 1945, japan and germany were monoracial, industrialized nations with mean IQs over 100 and technology even more advanced than the US. germany was christian, japan was shinto.

in 2003, iraq was a collection of farmers and peasants in an pre-industrialized nation with mean IQs in the high 80s and no technology. iraq was divided between sunni and shiite muslims.

you must also overlook the fact that iraq has never had a republic, and the US is trying to force it to use an alien form of government that the people don't want and have no experience with.

there was no organized, persistent, large scale guerilla resistance in japan or germany because 99% of the people honored a formal surrender to an organized war and mainly wanted to get back to living in peaceful world leading nation. back to science discoveries and nobel prizes, back to invention and creating new industries, back to world beating manufacturing, back to classic works of art and music.

does the current US administration seriously want us to believe that iraq is similar to world leaders like japan or germany? that somebody like wehrner von braun is going to come out of iraq? that iraq can "get back" to building and exporting cars and electronics "if only we rebuild iraq right"?

rebuilding japan and germany is total joke. you could not pick 2 nations that would be easier to rebuild. germany and japan are BETTER than the US nation that occupied and rebuilt them.

5/3/07, 8:44 AM

Blogger Alex(ei) said...

Steve,

Ethnic Germans were deported from Eastern European countries mostly by local authorities with support from the public, not by the Soviet Army as far as I know (except for the 1/3 of East Prussia that went to Russia). Once the elemental wave of pillage, drinking and rape subsided (which took a few weeks), there wasn't that much friction between the Red Army and German civilians. I have never read of significant resistance either to Soviet occupation or the ethnic cleansings -- and I would imagine that in Soviet times, any story worth telling about post-war Nazi resistance would have been told, likely as a movie.

But -- and that's important to your case -- there were significant resistance movements in other Soviet-dominated countries and areas, known as "Forest brothers" to Russians -- in Lithuania, Western Ukraine, Poland, and even Estonia. Those guerrilla fighters held on until the early 1950s. By that time, their supply routes almost died out, their numbers dwindled, and local support withered. None of those countries, it seems, had an efficient army before the war, surely not Poland or Ukraine. It would be also interesting to look at resistance movements under Nazi occupation -- near-absent in well-developed, well-run countries (except the mountainous north of Norway) but active in Greece, Yugoslavia and Poland. Russia is a mixed case -- its resistance fighters had strong ties with the regular army, and the movement was not that grassroot.

5/4/07, 5:33 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, Hollywood movies by jewish directors are good sources for historical facts concerning Germany in WWII.

I especially like to cite Orson Welles's "The Stranger" (1946). (Though Welles was not jewish, his producers and milieu certainly were.) In that major historical document, it is revealed that Germans in caves are conducting occult rites intended to rekindle the war in a matter of months. They are also infiltrating the United States Supreme Court, in order to launch a massive holocaust right here, in America!

The dirty German menace never went away/
I seen it in the matinee....

5/4/07, 7:00 AM

Blogger Matt said...

Groups that are competent at organized violence in wartime, such as the Germans and Japanese, tend to be orderly during peacetime. And groups that tend to be anarchic during peacetime also tend to be incompetent at organized violence during wartime, with the Iraqis being perhaps the most notorious example of this.

Arab tribesmen during the time of Mohammed and Genghis-Khan era Mongolian tribesmen are two counterexamples - of disorganized people that went on to conquer a good part of the world.

No, what you really mean is that a society which systematically submits its children to psychological abuse in order to increase their responsiveness to authority, will breed a populace that a) eagerly submits to authority, b) makes excellent soldiers, c) readily obeys an occupier as well.

Germany and Japan were the primary examples of such societies, England to a lesser extent, and America to a still lesser extent.

According to this perspective, England and America would also be relatively peaceful under occupation, assuming that the government had officially surrendered.

Which reminds me - don't you think part of the problem in Iraq was that Saddam's government never officially surrendered?

5/4/07, 10:24 AM

Anonymous Cicero said...

Congo Rice is an embarrassment. I was at a dinner a while back of French conservatives and had to apologize profusely.

5/4/07, 8:31 PM

Anonymous Jerry said...

Alexei: Poland's army not an "efficient army"? They held off Hitler longer than France did, and surrendered only after being invaded by the Soviets from the East. Recall also the beating that Poland delivered to the Soviets when they invaded it in 1921.

2/1/09, 7:39 AM

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