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Post a Comment On: Steve Sailer: iSteve

"Dogs: Nurture or Nurture?"

44 Comments -

1 – 44 of 44
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"nobody uses the word “owner” anymore, apparently" - Animal slaves.

4/13/14, 6:09 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

My last four Komments all got Kontrolled.

I was 0-fer the weekend.

0-fer-four.

Like getting swept in the World series.

Sigh.

4/13/14, 6:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You have a corrupt society. Corrupted at your founding. Now corrupted by modern shibboleths and multiculti trinkets. Tawdry to an outsider.

4/13/14, 6:32 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, nobody at the NYT level of society thinks about breeding dogs for better functionality. How about an Apartment Dog with a big bladder who only needs to be walked once a day?

Or what about a really robust dog that could go for long periods without food or water and that you could ride? It would be like a camel but smaller than a pony. You'd think the NYT would think about this given their interest in "green" transportation and the like.

4/13/14, 6:35 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

“The big lesson is to recognize that dogs are smarter than we think, and given time, patience and enough enjoyable reinforcement, we can teach them just about anything.”

So, what is the achievement gap between African Americans and dogs?

4/13/14, 6:35 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes there seems to be lots of low-hanging fruit here.

4/13/14, 6:40 PM

Anonymous H said...

Roissy and Vox Day say the uptick in dog-ownership is acting as a child substitute, e.g. http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2014/04/society-goes-to-dogs.html

4/13/14, 7:04 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"A lot of 95 IQ people today think hard about breeding dogs to make them conform even more to the American Kennel Club standards"

As a child in the 80s, American Kennel Club dog breeders impressed me as upper-middle class and/or wealthy. Almost Old Money like.

Perhaps it depends on the breed; or was I just being a hopelessly clueless child?

4/13/14, 7:10 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The dogs are taking action on their own:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dogs-best-friend/201404/washington-wolf-spayed-cavorting-dog-
No sooner had I posted my most recent blog entry on continued crossbreeding between wolves and livestock guarding dogs in the Georgian Caucasus than a geneticist friend sent me notice from the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife that a young female wolf had been captured and spayed after being seen cavorting with a local livestock guard dog. The surgery revealed that she was pregnant, presumably with puppies the dog had sired.

Why do that, I wondered, in the face of mounting evidence that wolves and dogs had been interbreeding since their first incomplete separation more than 15,000 years ago? As recently as two years ago, researchers examining the genetics of village dogs, found that the livestock guard dog in a Lebanese village was in fact 100 percent wolf.

That is a simple question with a complicated answer that says more about our attitudes toward nature and its citizens than it does about the animals involved. They, after all, wolf and dog, are merely living according to their natures.

I asked Donny Martorello, head of large carnivore conservation—cougars, grizzlies, and wolves—for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, why wildlife biologists had not simply let nature take its course with the hybrids. If conventional wisdom is right most of the pups would die soon after birth, if not before. Over time the descendants of those who survived and reproduced might contribute something to the wolf gene pool, but there were a lot of ifs and maybes and mights in that scenario.

Martorello explained that his agency desired as a matter of policy to have “the most pure wolfstock possible for repopulating the state.” It is an article of faith among wildlife managers that hybrids between wild and domestic animals are wrong and must not be permitted. This attitude has deep roots in the modern environmental movement, which adopted the wolf as the symbol of wilderness, a species essential to the health of an ecosystem.

The change reflected the thinking and influence of Aldo Leopold, among others. He came to see the wolf as the embodiment of wilderness—a dramatic shift from his initial embrace of the Anglo-American attitude, dating to the 16th century when the English killed all of their wolves to protect their sheep but more importantly the king’s stag herd. Wolves were still killers—but in their world, wilderness, their killing had a place.

...So profound was the transformation that the wolf became one of the first species listed under the Endangered Species Act of 1973. It would not do for this noble creature to carry dog blood; the mere suggestion of it caused an entire lineage, save for one animal, of endangered Mexican wolves to be killed, though they were later shown to be pure.

But if Washington’s wolves had to be pure, what about its guard dogs? I asked Donny Martorello why, since they had the wolf collared already, they did not capture the pups and raise them to be livestock protection dogs to see how they would perform? Martorello skirted the question. “We reached out to the people at Wolf Haven International in Washington and other groups,” he said, “but none had the resources to care for them.” In any event that avenue is no longer open.

4/13/14, 7:24 PM

Anonymous Inkraven said...

It's ironic that the same people that will espouse the multitude of differences between different breeds of dog are probably the same people who will go to great lengths to deny the existence of any differences between different breeds of people.

4/13/14, 7:32 PM

Anonymous anony-mouse said...

Breeding cancer-sniffing dogs?

Well Steve you've found your calling. Just Do It (TM).

And if not Steve there must be some HBD, sorry DBD people out there.

4/13/14, 7:55 PM

Anonymous couchscientist said...

You have to remember that breeding is not only frowned upon because it is part of the "pseudoscience of eugenics" but also breeding is contrary to principles of Feminism. Female dogs should get to choose with whom they mate. The whole notion of breeding is just "rapey". Additionally, animal rights are better served by us rescuing mutts from dog pounds(the only cool way to do it, even though you are not so secretly hoping he has some exotic pedigree that you track down), scooping up their crap and forgiving them when they bark at you and chew up your furniture. With so many crimethoughts vaguely nearby, the whole subject is doublebad and best to be avoided by righthinking minds.

4/13/14, 7:59 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This might as well have been in the Mesozoic era, since life with a dog was so primitive then.

So pathetic that I ought to show it to my students. People like this have their heads up their ass so bad that they historicize literally anything-even trivial shit like this- as an example of how enlightened they are. This is the intellectual depth of an annoying nine year old showoff. This is Pajamaboy culture.

4/13/14, 8:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

That iSqueek app is great!

4/13/14, 9:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's a marked difference.

It's a SMALL DOG.

Small dogs are cute, approachable and portable.

Small dog = Fashion Accessory = Child Substitute

Big dog = Security/Protection = More serious role

99% of the time, childless liberal women prefer small dogs. That's because big dogs are used by the police, or in more criminal zones.

On the other hand, small dogs pose no danger and no utility. Think Paris Hilton and her Chihuahua. Chihuahuas are small dogs which just decorate the place.

4/13/14, 9:49 PM

Anonymous Anononymous said...

"The dogs are taking action on their own:

I asked Donny Martorello, [...] why wildlife biologists had not simply let nature take its course with the hybrids. [...] It is an article of faith among wildlife managers that hybrids between wild and domestic animals are wrong and must not be permitted."


Ok, take wolves off the endangered species list (they are inter-fertile with dogs, so they arent really a different species). Let ranchers kill wolves. Dump animal shelter dogs in the wild to replace them. Packs of beagles and poodles will roam, taking down moose and deer and fufilling their role in the ecosystem.

4/13/14, 10:26 PM

Anonymous Old fogey said...

No need to read the NYT to find this stuff any more - just watch HGTV. So-called grown-ups actually have no shame in telling real estate agents (and the world) that they are choosing their new house mainly on the basis of what would be best for their dogs.

4/13/14, 10:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

How much of this aversion to child-rearing comes from anxiety about how well potential human offspring will measure up? Dogs are easy. As long as they don't go around biting people, you're a success as a dog-parent. What if your human child isn't reading at a fifth-grade level when he enters grade 1? Think of the scandal! In my experience, the better educated a person is, the more irrational their expectations are for their offspring. And in an age where educated couples might have two children at most, they only get a couple shots to prove to all their friends and family that they're amazing parents. My great-grandfather was a doctor. He had sixteen children. With that many, at least one was going to be a success of one kind or another.

4/13/14, 10:46 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"people who have more parenting drive than actual children to expend it upon. "

One motivation for universal pre k is giving wealthy white girls a fulfilling life minus the pregnancies. They are getting paid to indulge their hobbies.

4/13/14, 11:50 PM

Anonymous Anononymous said...

Such cancer. Many chemo. Wow.

4/14/14, 1:55 AM

Anonymous Anononymous said...

Talking dogs should be top priority.

Yuki The Shiba Says Hello

It would help them do their other jobs better.
Rooo rav rulon ransuuuur.

4/14/14, 2:00 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In any event that avenue is no longer open.

They Roe-v-Wade'd the little mulatto dog-wolf puppies?!?

Dilation-n-Curettage'ed 'em?

Oh the humanity.

Er, caninity.


4/14/14, 2:14 AM

Anonymous Anononymous said...

How about a dog breed that picks lettuce?

4/14/14, 2:17 AM

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic said...

I sensed that being a pet parent today — nobody uses the word “owner” anymore, apparently — means cultivating intelligence, manners and communication skills the way the parent of, say, a small human might.

"pet parent," "A small human,"

We. Are. Doomed.

4/14/14, 5:16 AM

Anonymous John Mansfield said...

On the radio in the Washington, D.C. suburbs, I hear a lot of ads for fertility clinics. I've also started to see SUVs sporting bumper stickers that read "I love my granddogs."

4/14/14, 5:28 AM

Anonymous Hunsdon said...

Anonydroid at 10:26 PM said: Packs of beagles and poodles will roam, taking down moose and deer and fufilling their role in the ecosystem.

Hunsdon said: Two quick points. First, the poodle breed was developed as a retriever. Second, in the wild, dogs will breed back to a distinct type: not quite a wolf, but wolf like. Medium bodied, brownish, hale hearty and healthy.

You probably knew that.

4/14/14, 5:32 AM

Anonymous Mr. Anon said...

"... Mr. Pilley told me, “The big lesson is to recognize that dogs are smarter than we think, and given time, patience and enough enjoyable reinforcement, we can teach them just about anything.”"

Anything? Organic chemistry? Portugese?

One has to admit that dogs disappoint far less than children do. True, your little pooch will never grow up to graduate summa-cum laude from Harvard. Neither will your dog get tattooed, or end up on a stripper-pole or a sherriff's work-detail.

A lot of dog-people clearly don't believe in genetics, as evidenced by the fact that they all seem to be so crazy about spaying and neeutering. I can understand the desire to have other people's dogs spayed or neutered. But if you like your dogs, and you want the world to have more like them, you should want them to breed.

4/14/14, 5:44 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can confirm I took pets over kids LITERALLY and explicitly in a deal with the wife. Sue me! Life is easier and I hate kids.

4/14/14, 6:17 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

These people seem more willing to educate their dogs than they are to educate African Americans.

This just perpetuates the structural racism in the system.

4/14/14, 7:13 AM

Anonymous Svigor said...

Martorello explained that his agency desired as a matter of policy to have “the most pure wolfstock possible for repopulating the state.” It is an article of faith among wildlife managers that hybrids between wild and domestic animals are wrong and must not be permitted. This attitude has deep roots in the modern environmental movement, which adopted the wolf as the symbol of wilderness, a species essential to the health of an ecosystem.

Lefty minds must work like prisons where everyone's kept in solitary confinement 24/7; no letting the ideas interact:

"Species must be preserved in their pure form, hybridization is wrong."
"Europeans must not be preserved in their pure form, hybridization is mandatory."
"There is no bright line between humans and animals. We are all animals, and non-human species have the same rights as humans."

You'd think this kind of thing would be pathological. Oh, right, it is.

This attitude has deep roots in the modern environmental movement, which adopted the wolf as the symbol of wilderness, a species essential to the health of an ecosystem.

Change two words and you've got a pretty robust form of racial nationalism.

4/14/14, 7:20 AM

Anonymous Jerry said...

It was about ten years ago that I read about how there are twice as many dogs and cats in America now as children. I have grown to be disgusted at the mere sight of people with pets and without children. They are... fundamentally unserious people.

I have a hunch also that having pets around reduces a woman's fertility. I know a woman who was trying to get pregnant, and there was a big black labrador (spelling?) in the house... a sinister creature.

4/14/14, 8:35 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Out of reach costs of family formation are behind this. You can keep a dog in a crate in a 1 bedroom trendy condo, you don't have to worry about "good schools"

4/14/14, 9:21 AM

Anonymous peterike said...

Dog rescuing is quite the rage among NY hipster women, old and young. But they like to rescue pit bulls and other noxious beasts.

I don't see a lot of tiny dog love going around with SWPL women. Tends to be more medium and up dogs. Chinese seem to like teeny dogs. Has anyone ever known an Indian with a dog?

But the "dog lady" is definitely replacing the "cat lady" as the object of future game-blog scorn.

4/14/14, 11:33 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"reasoning game in which she inferred time and again that a piece of paper on an angle meant a treat was hidden behind it"
Reasoning? You don't suppose the dog could SMELL the treat behind the angled piece of paper? The dog may or may not have reasoning abilities but she's not stupid enough to bother with thinking when she can just use her superior sense of smell.

4/14/14, 1:27 PM

Anonymous David said...

>One motivation for universal pre k is giving wealthy white girls a fulfilling life minus the pregnancies<

Not just white girls. I've known Chinese and hispanic girls professionally grokking pre-k and special ed. (One Chinese girl, a Masters of Ed-r, professed puzzlement over how unresponsive her largely black charges were. She retired at 40 to concentate on her 5-year-old.) There are paid-up "nice white ladies" who aren't white; the personality seems to have become a type to which women from all over aspire. This role model is certainly benign compared to Militant Lesbian.

But, yeah, the Ed Leviathan ain't drying up anytime soon.

4/14/14, 2:56 PM

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic said...

I can confirm I took pets over kids LITERALLY and explicitly in a deal with the wife. Sue me! Life is easier and I hate kids.

Maybe some stranger will bring a care dog to the nursing home one day.

4/14/14, 7:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Has anyone ever known an Indian with a dog?"

By default Indians in silicon valley seem to be dog-adverse. To the point where they've gotten politically organized on occasion to try to keep dogs from playgrounds and the like. They truly don't seem to like to be around dogs. Some of the more open Indians who have been in the US a long time (and maybe have kids who know kids who have dogs...) have slowly come around to dogs and then realize that dogs are cool.

(Maybe back in India a lot of the dogs are effectively feral. Chinese seem similar but not quite to the same degree.)

4/14/14, 9:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back in the day, they actually used to have Dog Houses. Outside. The Dog's lived.

Since an ungodly number of dog owners now sleep in the same bed as their dogs ... you gotta wonder exactly what is going on 3 standard deviations out. I don't really know, but I strongly believe in keeping within your species. I know that it is simply powerful humans enslaving animals, but wtf.

4/15/14, 1:24 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as dog breeding, I have seen devolved dogs in Asia and they seem to be superior in their own way. They aren't going to point at quail or heard sheep. They are generalist dogs.

They are definitely not high strung and can survive for quite a while on garbage.

If you gotta breed dogs, why not hipster dogs?

4/15/14, 1:27 AM

Anonymous BB753 said...

Steve, this reads like a satiric piece written by you! Are you ghost-writing for the NY Times?

4/15/14, 3:37 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

" The Anti-Gnostic said...
I sensed that being a pet parent today — nobody uses the word “owner” anymore, apparently — means cultivating intelligence, manners and communication skills the way the parent of, say, a small human might.

"pet parent," "A small human,"

We. Are. Doomed.

4/14/14, 5:16 AM"

I hear you brother, I hear you.

4/15/14, 9:48 AM

Blogger reiner Tor said...

I have an intense dislike for childless young people having pets.

4/15/14, 2:43 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

***"“The big lesson is to recognize that dogs are smarter than we think, and given time, patience and enough enjoyable reinforcement, we can teach them just about anything.” "***

What is 10,000 hours of practice, in dog years?

4/15/14, 11:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Apparently, some people are unfamiliar with Clever Hans...

4/16/14, 11:18 AM

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