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Post a Comment On: Steve Sailer: iSteve

"Supreme Court re-endorses IQ"

49 Comments -

1 – 49 of 49
Anonymous Biff said...

Anyone have a clue how IQ 50 humans compare with smart animals? Was Nim Chimpsky tested? I have a vague idea that IQ is most accurate around 100, but you'd think people who like to order their pets around would have quantified this.

5/27/14, 10:22 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rushton (I think it was Rushton -- someone correct me if I'm misremembering) noted that 70 IQ blacks were much higher functioning than 70 IQ whites. In essence, I think he concluded that the latter were so far to the left side of the bell curve for whites that they usually had serious genetic problems that led to their low IQ, whereas this was not the case for as many of the black individuals in that IQ range.

If we're serious about using IQ as a proxy for moral understanding, Rushton's research would seem to suggest that a 70 IQ black has more moral understanding than a 70 IQ white.

5/27/14, 10:26 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

by all means let us put the line for mental retardation back to 85 where it belongs.

5/27/14, 10:49 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

My niece...blond hair blue eyes...came very close to suffering the same fate as Karol Hurst two years ago...very close upstate NY...it was a paroled Black with a sexual assault history. Thinking about what could have happned I get a very sick feeling in my gut. Yet millions of White Men sit in football and basketball arenas fantasizing that they are good buddies with their favorite Black Jock. Go google a photo of Karol Hurst with her three year White son......

Bill Blizzard and his Men

5/27/14, 11:05 AM

Anonymous Dahlia said...

Related: my pediatrician told me the other day that her youngest labelled-retarded patient is 21. As rates of "autism" have climbed, rates for "mental retardation" have plummeted she said with an eye roll. She won't debate with parents whose children are wrongly-labelled, she supposes they're in denial and find autism more acceptable.
Literally the day before, I met the most gregarious 15-year-old. Excellent eye contact, even rubbed mine and other's back...a social butterfly despite being retarded. Dad explained his odd son as being autistic (!).
I believe autism is genuinely rising from what I understand, but I don't know.

Anyway, mental retardation has become a condition that dares not speak its name.

5/27/14, 11:16 AM

Anonymous eah said...

They should also rule on how dumb taxpayers have to be in order to tolerate an activist judiciary forcing them to support idiot murderers in prison for life.

5/27/14, 11:17 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if Sub-Saharan Africans have an average IQ of 69 and the cutoff for execution is 70...

Disparate impact indeed.

Gordo

5/27/14, 11:35 AM

Anonymous dearieme said...

If 71 is too near 70, then 72 is too near 71; and 73 is too near 72 ....

They must have intended this.

5/27/14, 11:36 AM

Anonymous Mr. Rational said...

Perhaps the limit should be 2 standard deviations below the mean for the perp's racial or ethnic group.  After all, if behavior is going to be race-normed, why shouldn't criminal culpability?

5/27/14, 11:40 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Specific IQ scores are a troublesome "shorthand" to the fact that IQ can only be measured in a band that is defined by degrees of likelihood that the "true" (underlying) "score" is somewhere within it--e.g,
Johnny's overall performance on the IQ test is such that there is a 85% likelihood he surpasses at least 87 out of 100 children his age and , in turn, is surpassed by 6 (?) out 100 children his age.
What would aid all this is some
format/ signal system/ to denote that the "ability distance" from an IQ 130 to an IQ 145 is much much greater than it is from IQ 115 to IQ 130. The "giant" status
of IQ's in the 145-160 range is
obscured by conventional numerical
representation. If it all mattered to the profit margins of the major test publishers, the
"troublesome" misunderstanding potential would have been rectified long ago. It doesn't.

5/27/14, 11:54 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Specific IQ scores are a troublesome "shorthand" to the fact that IQ can only be measured in a band that is defined by degrees of likelihood that the "true" (underlying) "score" is somewhere within it--e.g,
Johnny's overall performance on the IQ test is such that there is a 85% likelihood he surpasses at least 87 out of 100 children his age and , in turn, is surpassed by 6 (?) out 100 children his age.
What would aid all this is some
format/ signal system/ to denote that the "ability distance" from an IQ 130 to an IQ 145 is much much greater than it is from IQ 115 to IQ 130. The "giant" status
of IQ's in the 145-160 range is
obscured by conventional numerical
representation. If it all mattered to the profit margins of the major test publishers, the
"troublesome" misunderstanding potential would have been rectified long ago. It doesn't.

5/27/14, 11:54 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Specific IQ scores are a troublesome "shorthand" to the fact that IQ can only be measured in a band that is defined by degrees of likelihood that the "true" (underlying) "score" is somewhere within it--e.g,
Johnny's overall performance on the IQ test is such that there is a 85% likelihood he surpasses at least 87 out of 100 children his age and , in turn, is surpassed by 6 (?) out 100 children his age.
What would aid all this is some
format/ signal system/ to denote that the "ability distance" from an IQ 130 to an IQ 145 is much much greater than it is from IQ 115 to IQ 130. The "giant" status
of IQ's in the 145-160 range is
obscured by conventional numerical
representation. If it all mattered to the profit margins of the major test publishers, the
"troublesome" misunderstanding potential would have been rectified long ago. It doesn't.

5/27/14, 11:56 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/05/141875-wapo-film-critic-blames-mass-shooting-hollywood-white-mens-escapist-fantasies/

Dumb bitch has one thing in common with Rodgers. Blame whitey.

Never mind Hollywood is run by Jews and homos.
Never mind porn is controlled by Jews.
And rap culture of thuggery has been promoted by Jews and Libs.

5/27/14, 12:00 PM

Blogger Geoff Matthews said...

I've thought that our reasoning on IQ and punishment is backwards. The mentally retarded are less likely to reform, I believe, than those with an average IQ, so I'd be more in favor of their execution.

5/27/14, 12:07 PM

Blogger The American Notice said...

Sterling is a southerner.

Zimmerman is a white hispanic.

Rodgers is a ... white asian?

5/27/14, 12:08 PM

Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

It is clear that while the official PC position is not to believe IQ means that much, many people quietly believe it anyway. They believe their children's SAT's mean something, and they believe that Wechslers tell us something as well. I wonder what a secret ballot would reveal, when the opprobrium of ones associates was no longer in play?

5/27/14, 12:18 PM

Blogger Chris Mallory said...

I spent some time working in a residential setting with "developmentally disable" adults. You basically had 3 groups. The profoundly retarded. Basically infants in adult bodies. Usually harmless. The Down's Syndrome "residents" were usually harmless as well.

Then you had the borderline group. They had IQs in the upper 60s to low 70s. They usually had substance abuse issues as well as what ever medical problems they had. This group was composed of some of the most dangerous people I have ever been around. They knew how to plan crimes and how to work the system. They had no problems committing rape and assault. Murder was not something I had to deal with, but a few years later one of the safe residents was stomped to death by one of the borderlines. They knew right from wrong, they just didn't care.

5/27/14, 12:32 PM

Anonymous peterike said...

Of course, in a sane society, a low IQ would be a factor encouraging the death penalty for somebody, not preventing it. But we stopped being sane a long time ago.

5/27/14, 12:33 PM

Anonymous marty said...

Can anyone from Florida explain why this guy wasn't executed long ago?

5/27/14, 1:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, as usual. If you have enough IQ to kill, you have enough IQ to be killed.

If you have not enough IQ to not kill without good motive, you also have not enough IQ to go around free.

5/27/14, 1:21 PM

Anonymous Gunther Marshall said...

Has there been a SCOTUS "Justice" with an IQ below 100 in the last 100 years? Doubtful.

How about below 115?

5/27/14, 1:49 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm completely against the death penalty but letting someone off (any punishment) on the grounds of stupidity is wrong...If this is fair then its also fair to deny full citizenship to those deemed too stupid to be in possession of basic morals. If any government in the states even thought of doing this for a seconds the criest of "Hitler" from the left would be endless.

5/27/14, 2:10 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gunther Marshall said..."Has there been a SCOTUS "Justice" with an IQ below 100 in the last 100 years? Doubtful.

How about below 115?"

Thurgood Marshall? If he had an original thought after joining the court, he hid it well.

5/27/14, 2:15 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do we disenfranchise if someone's IQ is too low? Why not? And yet we can eliminate societal punishment based on the same determining IQ?

Makes perfect sense!

5/27/14, 2:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

St. Ronnie's SCOTUS pick, the gift that keeps on giving.

5/27/14, 2:43 PM

Anonymous jody said...

there are probably 1 billion third worlders with a mental capability that would score a 70 on a standardized intelligence test. are they to be exempted from laws?

70 is still in the normal range for a lot of countries. 70 is in the normal range for pure blooded africans in the US! as i posted in the thread about a baseball player 'too dumb to tie his shoes', there are millions of africans running around in america who would score a 70 on a wechsler or stanford-binet. they still function fine, if slowly. so now a big chunk of the african population can't be executed for knowingly killing people?

5/27/14, 2:57 PM

Anonymous E. Rekshun said...

This SCOTUS decision is another slow, quiet, intentional step toward the eventual outlawing of the death penalty. Obama will get at least one more Supreme Court Justice pick (possibly two) and that will wrap it up.

5/27/14, 2:59 PM

Blogger RobertW said...

You should buy your niece a stylish pistol or revolver she can fit in her purse and also get her a few training sessions at a local range. Hopefully she lives in a concealed carry state.

5/27/14, 4:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you're too stupid to NOT kill, shouldn't you be put to death? Would you want to be a guard or another prisoner around someone like this?

5/27/14, 4:37 PM

Anonymous Chicago said...

Illinois death row inmate Anthony Porter, convicted of a double murder, had appeals made on his behalf for the same reason, that he was too dumb to kill. Then some supporters got him off death row by convincing a judge he was really innocent. After getting out he was mobbed by the media, an innocent man railroaded by the system. On television he came across as mentally competent, being able to interact with the media and field questions. Not what people think of when they think of someone who's retarded.
He later sued but seemingly inexplicably the jury refused to award him anything. The defendants fought the case by presenting evidence that Porter was actually guilty all along and was properly found guilty. According to police author Martin Preib (Crooked City) Porter's supporters apparently hornswoggled some other not very bright person into confessing to the murders and thus got Porter sprung and the other person incarcerated. It now looks like a huge mess with Preib and others stating the innocence crusaders got a guilty man off and an innocent man locked up.

5/27/14, 5:05 PM

Anonymous Stan D Mute said...

I had much more respect and admiration for Linda Gottfredson before I knew she wrote this, "Most very short people are perfectly normal."

It's been my experience that most very short people are abnormally short..

5/27/14, 5:46 PM

Anonymous Stan D Mute said...

I've actually been looking for this for a few weeks. I should have known to just bide my time and it would appear here on iSteve.

10-12% of Afro Americans have IQ of 70 or below and 20% have IQ of 75 or below.

My mathmagical skills aren't what Mr Sailer's are, but I think this means we harbor in the ballpark of 4,000,000-4,800,000 Afros who meet the definition of "retarded". And around 8,000,000 of them are "borderline" or lower.

Expressed that way, the numbers seem staggering. What are the white population percentages and gross numbers? What are the mestizo and indio numbers?

How many borderline retarded and lower people can a nation of 300,000,000 support?

Of these 8,000,000 Afro American borderline and full retards, how many are driving a motor vehicle at any moment? Operating any other machinery or handling guns or pointy objects?

I may not want to leave my house anymore!

5/27/14, 6:01 PM

Blogger Dennis Dale said...

“Florida seeks to execute a man because he scored a 71 instead of 70 on an I.Q. test,”

Odd, I was of the impression they wanted to execute him for the rape and murder of a pregnant woman and a police officer.

5/27/14, 6:18 PM

Blogger Dennis Dale said...

This is just the soft bigotry of low expectations!

5/27/14, 6:18 PM

Anonymous Mamin said...

"Finally, the Court's decision officially designates that a much larger fraction of the African-American population is of diminished moral capability compared to the white and East Asian populations."

Liberals already designate a much larger fraction of AAs as morally deficient than 12% or even 20% if you philosophically weigh their policies and views.

5/27/14, 6:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems to me that there's a great deal of incentive for a man on death row to score very, very low on any IQ test he's asked to take.

5/27/14, 6:39 PM

Anonymous Aaron said...

From the article:

Persons facing that most severe sanction must have a fair opportunity to show that the Constitution prohibits their execution.

How does the constitution prohibit the death penalty?

5/27/14, 6:52 PM

Anonymous NOTA said...

It seems like this has very little to do with intelligence or IQ, and a lot to do with the fact that the supreme court would probably like to roll back the death penalty a bit.

Now, this case is a f--king travesty--it's nuts to have a man sitting on death row for 36 years. And I'm not too confident that a guy with an IQ of 70 actually understood what was going on w.r.t. his trial, or any confession he might have signed, or whatever. But I assume that SC cases about political policy issues are generally decided on the basis of what these nine permanently-appointed politicians would rather see US policy look like, rather than the law or the constitution.

5/27/14, 8:09 PM

Anonymous NOTA said...

I also thought it was an annoying gap in the NPR coverage of this case that they never bothered to work out:

a. What fraction of the population has an IQ below 70.

b. What fraction of various ethnic groups (especially blacks and whites) have an IQ below 70.

You're looking at something like 16% of the black population who would be excluded from execution by this rule--which seems kinda high. I mean, I'm fine with getting rid of the death penalty, but if we're going to have it, we'd probably like it to apply to most people who have a basic understanding that raping and murdering people is wrong and will get you in trouble with the law.

5/27/14, 8:14 PM

Anonymous NOTA said...

Anon 6:39:

I wonder how they deal with that. Even a pretty dumb person can probably manage to do badly on a test, but it might take some intelligence to do plausibly badly on a test, rather than obviously ditching it.

5/27/14, 8:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Rushton ( I think it was... ) that 0 IQ Blacks were significantly higher functioning
than 70 IQ Whites." I believe you may be referring to Arthur Jensen? Jensen and one or two of is graduate students noticed on the playgrounds at schools that among children identified as mildly mentally retarded, Blacks seemed to adapt to the playground tasks notably better than Whites with similar measured IQ scores.
This in part led to his exploration of Level I and Level II abilities. While these groupings arose from factor analysis, it may well be that they are counterpart of Pavlov's
regard to a first and second signaling system (non-language and language ). Jensen, upon re-reading Spearman, discarded his
Level I and Level II conceptions in favor of Spearman's "g". During this time (early 70's ) Jensen had also begun working in his laboratory with brain wave measurements correlative to IQ and in due course he evolved his
choice reaction time apparatus that has a modest but scientifically important correlation with "g".

5/27/14, 8:42 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

From careful observations made by Europeans upon first encountering the aboriginal populations of Australia and especially of Tasmania, the average "IQ" would
appear to have been far below the current cut off. The Tasmanians, in particular, were so dull as to be considered subhuman. Both aboriginal populations had evolved no understanding of the relationship between sexual intercourse and pregnancy, for example.

5/27/14, 8:46 PM

Anonymous Charlesz Martel said...

Could someone please explain to me how, as the death penalty is explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, it's unconstitutional? "No person shall be deprived of life....without due process"
-doesn't this mean it's explicitly recognized as constitutional?

5/27/14, 8:49 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

IQ scores bear a fairly high
correlation to ability estimates that come from close observation of skilled work tasks--or unskilled labor, for that matter.
The sorts of task challenges that
are part of IQ measurements involving block design tests, or
pattern completion tests, of arranging "puzzle pieces", etc.
are obvious in many aspects of motor-performance labor. Black IQ, in reality, was measured long before Galton and Binet in work tasks on plantations.

5/27/14, 8:52 PM

Anonymous Rob said...

As far as I know, there's no IQ test for being allowed to vote, serve on a jury, etc. So low-IQ people are supposed to be shielded from the consequences of their actions, but have the right to make decisions affecting others.

5/28/14, 1:40 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe you may be referring to Arthur Jensen?

I was thinking of Jensen; thank you.

5/28/14, 8:35 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the science of human cognition-behavior, there is
no debasement/ no "vo tech" vulgarity/ in melding IQ measurement with structured observation. At a time with
ubiquitous access to audio-video
recording, it is possible to record clearly interactions with
a suspected mentally retarded prisoner and to get a very clear notion of whether he/she has a sense of responsibility. Mental-emotional disorder is so often
woven into these people that the sense of responsibility may not be clearly indicated by a mere IQ score. It is a condition that you know when you see it, and it is a little pseudo-scientific /
pseudo-quantitative to demand that it has to be yielded up in some
fashion of, say, a chemical analysis of a soil sample.

5/28/14, 12:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if you are a lo-IQ moron you get a pass when you viciously kill a pregnant woman? Since a normal IQ person will get the death penalty, this is affirmative action for morons. Crazy killers too. They get a pass while the non-crazy gets tried and executed.

This violates equal protection under the law in the US Constitution. "The Equal Protection Clause is part of the Fourteenth Amendment"

5/28/14, 1:09 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then you had the borderline group. They had IQs in the upper 60s to low 70s. They usually had substance abuse issues as well as what ever medical problems they had. This group was composed of some of the most dangerous people I have ever been around. They knew how to plan crimes and how to work the system. They had no problems committing rape and assault. Murder was not something I had to deal with, but a few years later one of the safe residents was stomped to death by one of the borderlines. They knew right from wrong, they just didn't care.

Also a lifetime of being coddled in government schools and by the juvenile justice system takes away any healthy fear of punishment they may have.

Given that these little monsters know how to "work the system" - they milk every little bit of sympathy from teachers, educrats, doctors, social workers, police, judges, etc - stealing resources that could be used for more deserving children.

5/29/14, 4:41 PM

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