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Post a Comment On: Steve Sailer: iSteve

"The View from Istanbul: The Future Is Ottoman"

4 Comments -

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Anonymous fifi said...

"Instead, the whole world seems to be swinging in the other direction, and becoming Ottoman -- i.e. a civilizational quagmire behind the facade of a cheap, perfumed eclecticism of grandiosity barely breathing (with a case of halitosis) under the dank and oppressive pseudo-intellectualism of politeness."

Is this a phase we eventually get to with all the ethnicities behaving in an equally polite manner? Because the current state of affairs in the good ol US of A is quite different. Only the light skinned inhabitants are expected to submit to the dictates of the "psuedo-intellectualism of politeness." Everyone else pretty much acts as if they own the place and will sue if any of the light skinned beg to differ.

12/21/07, 11:11 PM

Anonymous dave david said...

steve, your man in instanbul has it completely backwards. as soon as the new world order can atomize every distinct nationality on the planet and produce a hostile majority-minority political environment absolutely everywhere - with no sense of community, or trust, or purpose - then, and only then, can utopia be established.

sure it sounds implausible and counter-intuitive, but the guys reading from the ancient scrolls assure me that that is indeed the case. so, let's just go with the flow here, ok?

12/22/07, 1:02 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I enjoyed this letter a lot. Multiethnic *can* work under limited circumstances. For example, many science programs in us grad school shave gone from 100% white to 50/50 white and asian with no problems, and the British and the Welsh have gotten along pretty well for a long time.

The problem is when there is a large mean IQ gap between the groups. Since "civility" supposedly requires everyone to pretend the difference doesn't exist when it does, when the differences manifest themselves economically, resentment is the result.

12/22/07, 9:46 AM

Anonymous Evil Neocon said...

Steve your commenter (and no offense, yourself) have no clue what the Ottoman Empire really was.

It was always a very violent, dangerous place where power changed hands through, well ruthless violence. Imagine an empire filled with nothing but Anton Chigurs and you get the idea.

Sultans routinely strangled all relatives upon assuming the throne, to prevent succession trouble. Wives and concubines would plot assassinations to raise their children as possible successors. Purges and pogroms were constant and hyper-violent: against Armenians, and then later Kurds (who formed the bulk of the Armenian's killers). But also Greeks, various Christian (Western) denominations, with Western Powers invited to act as protectors.

The Ottoman Empire of course was a Turkish, not Arabic Empire. And Arabs resented it as well. It was either at the throat of Europe (nearly conquering Vienna twice) or at it's feet. Other than manpower, the Ottoman Empire had nothing going for it, no innovations in any military manner whatsoever because it's society was trapped in the Amber of the firman system (essentially a tax-plantation).

If anything Multiculturalism embodies lip service to some identity while various ethnic groups plot purges and pogroms against each other, and eventually outside powers intervene on one side or another. It as you point out decreases trust, and hence innovation, as well as "affordable family formation" and a huge mass of seething underclass (which is likely the point of the elites).

It's a recipe for a violent, fading society that begs for intervention by other powers.

12/22/07, 4:01 PM

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