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Post a Comment On: Steve Sailer: iSteve

"Affirmative Action for Italian-Americans"

50 Comments -

1 – 50 of 50
Blogger jack strocchi said...

Speaking as an Italian-Australian all I can say is: where is Joey Gallo when you need him most?

9/14/10, 10:59 PM

Blogger jack strocchi said...

More generally, it beats me how any proud man from an ethnic group can reduce himself to a mendicant from the state in order to get promoted. As soon as you identify yourself as a "victim" you lose social-status, no matter how tough things are.

Who wants to be branded a loser?

9/14/10, 11:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Didn't Richard Lynn report last year that Sicilians have an IQ in the high 80s? Basically Italy south of Naples would be third world if the more Germanic half wasn't pulling the whole country.

Also goes that show that when this country becomes half minority, it won't necessarily go third world.

9/14/10, 11:19 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Dr. Milione argued that Italian-American representation on the faculty and the staff had remained flat — between 5 percent and 6 percent"

Considering Italians are 14% of New York state and 20-25% of NYC this is really underrepresented

9/14/10, 11:30 PM

Anonymous SFG said...

I always felt sorry for the Italians. Not smart enough to take up a quarter of Harvard, not stupid enough to suck welfare and get AA. And they've still got the Mafia stereotype.

9/15/10, 12:19 AM

Blogger Garland said...

I've always wondered how long it would be before whites were broken up into groups for the purposes of demanding government largesse. It's always happened a mite bit in the form of Italian Senators supporting Italian SCOTUS justices of the opposite party, or the left not wanting to fight Columbus Day in NYC, but basically whites have been so far too lumped together in the 40 years of the affirmative actions state for the issue to arise. The most obvious distinction is Jews vs white Gentiles; once you distinguish them you see how much less represented non-Jewish whites are in the supposedly-white power structure. But, just as whites will increasingly behave like minorities as they became one, it is probably only a matter of even less time before various non-wasp whites start behaving like non-wasp non-Jewish minorities.

9/15/10, 1:18 AM

Anonymous Bantam said...

Not only Italian-Americans; it seems like another ethnicity has been wildly discriminated against at CUNY.

9/15/10, 1:29 AM

Anonymous IHTG said...

Oh, wow, I have an Italian-American friend who went to CUNY. I'll never look at her the same way again.

And yes, of course, as America balkanizes, it's the Mediterranean whites who will "go tribal" first.

9/15/10, 1:32 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In this article one sees the tiniest hint of how a sane newsmedia would report on our debauched age. The sniff in the reporter's tone is unmistakable and her choice of ending quote is nothing short of contemptuous.

Of course this is because she thinks she's taking a shot at whites, rather than affirmative action.

9/15/10, 3:51 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

What you need to figure out here is, who is the silent target of the Italian-Americans? My guess is that if you compiled a list of the faculty rolls as CUNY you'll find that it's not just a matter of Italians being underrepresented per se as you would other groups (perhaps one other group?) being humongously overrepresented.

On a separate note I have to say that growing up I couldn't even tell an Italian last name apart from any other, and certainly didn't associate any special stereotypes with I-As. (Hell, I didn't even know who they were.) But watching the Sopranos definitely did influence me. Weird.

9/15/10, 4:08 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

All White Gentiles are massively underrepresented in Academia.

The fact that the Italians are smart enough to fight it a little should be commended.

9/15/10, 6:36 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Didn't Richard Lynn report last year that Sicilians have an IQ in the high 80s?"

He was lying.

There haven't been any IQ tests given to Sicilians.

An IQ test is an intelligence test, and is therefore fundamentally different from the academic PISA test data Lynn wrongly attempted to convert into IQ scores.

9/15/10, 6:38 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The whole point of an IQ test is to try to measure innate intelligence.

In contrast, the point of an Academic test is partly to measure things like quality of schooling which are so often distinct from innate intelligence.

9/15/10, 6:42 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also goes that show that when this country becomes half minority, it won't necessarily go third world.

It'll go Jersey Shore.

9/15/10, 7:18 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

On a separate note I have to say that growing up I couldn't even tell an Italian last name apart from any other, and certainly didn't associate any special stereotypes with I-As.

You couldn't recognize Italian surnames?!?

9/15/10, 7:20 AM

Blogger Geoff said...

I scoff when I see "affirmative action" next to "equal opportunity." They are two totally different things. One of them kept me out of the University of Michigan, and the other one is common sense.

9/15/10, 7:21 AM

Anonymous dearieme said...

You need a name for your strange system of racial privileges. It's doesn't keep the races separate, so it's not Apartheid. It is dystopian. How about Dyspartheid? Remember that that rhymes with "hate".

9/15/10, 7:42 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Judging by my "high school cafeteria" test, I think it will take a lot of generation for Italitians to see themselves as other than white. At my mulit-cultural high school they mixed witht he white kids at lunch. Popular Italian-Americans sat with the other popular kids, nerdy Italian Americans sat with nerdy kids, Band Italian Americans sat with the band kids. There was not Italian American cliche but NAMS sat together in their ethnic niches.

9/15/10, 8:30 AM

Anonymous BamaGirl said...

They've probably just realized that the descendants of conquistadors are being counted as "hispanic" and thus riding the AA gravy train. Most Italian Americans are usually just as dark as these so-called "hispanics" so I can't really blame them for wanting a slice of the pie.

9/15/10, 8:48 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

One thing one should bear in mind here is that this controversy is set in NYC.

Unless you've lived for some significant period of your life in NYC, you really won't be able to understand the level of preoccupation there is in NYC on ethnicity in all its strains. It is essentially the haven for those members of various ethnic groups who most powerfully desire to avoid assimilation. Members of ethnic groups who are, as individuals, open to assimilation, in greatly disproportionate numbers move elsewhere.

I can't think of a single other city in America in which ethnic infighting is so pervasive and aggressive.

If your model of how decisions get made at CUNY, is based on what you know of, say, UCLA or Harvard or Penn State or Iowa, then you are very much missing the real picture.

Without looking at the numbers, I can't say with any certainty that Italian-Americans are being discriminated against at CUNY, in favor of other better entrenched groups. But I know it would be completely naive to imagine that that isn't a very real possibility.

9/15/10, 8:59 AM

Blogger Dutch Boy said...

I suspect that white ethnics in general are under-represented in education and business (except political patronage jobs). Anyone have any numbers?

9/15/10, 9:28 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Italians should do everybody a favor and start claiming Hispanic heritage. We would have better qualified AA recipients. In fact, all whites should be claiming Hispanic, but Italians at least pass the sniff test better than others. Your great-grandpa was an Argentinian immigrant who reimmigrated back to Italy, Germany, England. Thus, your grandpa was Hispanic and so are you. Ridiculous? So's the racial spoils game.

"More generally, it beats me how any proud man from an ethnic group can reduce himself to a mendicant from the state in order to get promoted. As soon as you identify yourself as a "victim" you lose social-status, no matter how tough things are.

Who wants to be branded a loser?"

I wish you were more right, but there are plenty of folks who see gaming the system as par for the course. They justify it by assuming that others got there through knowing somebody or having special advantages. You are right to a degree, but honor is quickly fading.

-Mr. Hispanic

9/15/10, 10:28 AM

Blogger Marc B said...

"And yes, of course, as America balkanizes, it's the Mediterranean whites who will "go tribal" first."

We never weren't tribal. The only Northern European group in the US that have a similar sense of solidarity are unreconstructed Southern whites. Italians/Sicilians have never fully integrated into the Melting Pot. My people are a low social trust culture with one foot in the new world and the other in the old. It's not like the WASP elite that ruled until the late 20th century was looking to include us, but we understood, and there are no hard feelings. We're glad to be here, and understand every group takes care of it's own, or at least should.

But you don't have to worry about further Italo-American Balkanization. We may stick together, but we will always align with the Northern European founding stock when it hits the fan. There is no love between American Italians and the blacks, southern border invaders, or newcomers from the H1B and refugee zones.

9/15/10, 10:58 AM

Anonymous ATBOTL said...

"More generally, it beats me how any proud man from an ethnic group can reduce himself to a mendicant from the state in order to get promoted. As soon as you identify yourself as a "victim" you lose social-status, no matter how tough things are."

Better to have a job through AA than not have a job.

9/15/10, 11:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reply to anon at #3.

The flaw in your reasoning is this;
Even though Italians from the south may be a bit slower and thicker then those from the north, THEY ARE STILL ITALIANS.

9/15/10, 12:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Didn't Richard Lynn report last year that Sicilians have an IQ in the high 80s?"

He was lying.





So you reject all of his other research? Look at Sicily. Look at the white underclass in New York. It all makes enough sense.

9/15/10, 1:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you reject all of his other research? Look at Sicily. Look at the white underclass in New York. It all makes enough sense.

Southern Italian cities such as Naples do have that grimy, run-down Latin American city feel to them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOj_N45SA_E

9/15/10, 2:46 PM

Anonymous ATBOTL said...

Sicilians get picked on a lot around here, but many 100% Sicilians I have met are very Northern European looking, with blond hair, blue eyes and narrow skulls(as opposed to round skulls of most southern Italians). They are probably less swarthy on average than people from Calabria and Pulia. This stuff about Sicilians being part black or more Arab than other people from far Southern Europe is just a myth from what I can tell. I wonder how many people who talk about Sicilians in the internet actually have met one in real life.

9/15/10, 4:05 PM

Anonymous Tony T. said...

Southern Italians, which are most of the Italians in America, aren't known for their brain power. There is truth in stereotypes. However they do well economically. Lots of them own construction businesses, auto repair shops, and pizza/delis. And lets not forget the mafia brings in millions, which is spread around the community. They do like to start beefs more than other whites, but their neighborhoods are safe because the mob wouldn't have it any other way.

9/15/10, 4:53 PM

Anonymous patrick said...

It is BS that Sicilians are part black or mostly Arab- and I get tired of hearing it. But being of Sicilian descent, I also find it annoying when Internet warriors try to "defend" us by making us out to be Nordic.
In spite of all the different invaders on the island, the majority of Sicilians (with the possible exception of people from a few towns) look distinctly Southern European, and Sicilians have more Greek ancestry than Norman or anything else.

I don't think I-As need affirmative action. I would be embarrassed to accept it, as would my relatives and I suspect most other I-As. Italian-Americans have higher average income and levels of education than the American average, and suspect the I-A averages are higher than for many white ethnic groups (like Irish and Scots-Irish).

9/15/10, 6:42 PM

Anonymous adsfasdfasdf said...

Come to think of it, why not? CUNY could be run by the Sopranos. It's a total joke.

It should be renamed FUNY.

9/15/10, 7:29 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Italian-Americans have higher incomes because they're concentrated in East Coast metros, which have higher wages.

I like and respect Italians, but the United States was rather fortunate to get most of the German immigrants while the overwhelming majority of Italian immigrants went to Argentina and Brazil.

9/15/10, 7:40 PM

Anonymous Abe Fauxman said...

Anonymous said...

All White Gentiles are massively underrepresented in Academia.


What a bigoted groundless assertion!

You may check and see how massively diverse CUNY is.
You can't deny a couple White Gentiles have managed to sneak in.

9/15/10, 7:43 PM

Anonymous ATBOTL said...

I just read that Sicily received heavy immigration from Northern Italy in the Middle Ages when it was more the most prosperous part of Italy and that there are still villages there where Lombard dialects are spoken. I doubt there is a big IQ difference between parts of Italy. Why is Sweden so much richer than Russia? I don't think intelligence is the biggest cause for every regional difference in wealth.

9/15/10, 9:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You whining morons, "underrepresented" and "overrepresented" are bullshit terms. You think Italians are being cheated because Jews outnumber them at CUNY? They are "underrepresented" because they aren't up to par and probably because affirmative action for NAMs is blocking out mediocre white admissions.

9/15/10, 10:16 PM

Blogger Truth said...

"I scoff when I see "affirmative action" next to "equal opportunity."

They want the white person from Staten Island to have innate benefits over the white person from North Dakota, how is that "equal opportunity?"

9/15/10, 10:51 PM

Blogger Truth said...

"Italians should do everybody a favor and start claiming Hispanic heritage."

Now how, exactly, would they do that when they have zero ties to Spain?

9/15/10, 10:53 PM

Blogger Truth said...

"The flaw in your reasoning is this;
Even though Italians from the south may be a bit slower and thicker then those from the north, THEY ARE STILL ITALIANS."

Yes, and Frank Bruno is STILL A BRIT.

9/15/10, 10:56 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"are very Northern European looking, with blond hair, blue eyes and narrow skulls(as opposed to round skulls of most southern Italians)."

Please stop posting here. You are lowering the quality of discussion.

9/15/10, 11:51 PM

Anonymous eh said...

Eliminate the nice salaries, job security, and very cushy pensions at these public institutions -- make them comparable with the private sector, e.g. SS or IRAs or 401ks -- and this would be less of a problem. It's pursuit of taxpayer provided spoils, nothing more. If the jobs were less desirable, these ethnic hustlers would not be yapping so much.

9/16/10, 1:59 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Now how, exactly, would they do that when they have zero ties to Spain?"

Truth, do you bother to read a whole post before commenting on it, or are you so brilliant you only need to read the first sentence? It's called civil disobedience, your people invented it, scratch that, used it, in the 60's.

Mr. Hispanic

9/16/10, 7:16 AM

Blogger Dutch Boy said...

Truth said...
"Italians should do everybody a favor and start claiming Hispanic heritage."

Now how, exactly, would they do that when they have zero ties to Spain?
Answer:"The 16th and 17th centuries are sometimes called "the Golden Age of Spain" (in Spanish, Siglo de Oro). As a result of the marriage politics of the Reyes Católicos, their Habsburg grandson Charles inherited the Castilian empire in America, the Aragonese Empire in the Mediterranean (including a large portion of modern Italy),..."

9/16/10, 8:05 AM

Anonymous eh said...

Regarding feeding at the trough:

Manager, police pull in top pay - Town records show 52 above $100k

Town Manager Wayne P. Marquis, as the highest paid municipal worker in Danvers last year, earned nearly $20,000 more than the next person on the list and was paid far more than at least one mayor of a neighboring city with a larger population, an examination of payroll records found.

Marquis earned $173,932 last year, according to town records obtained by the Globe through a public information request.

Police Sergeant Paul Stone, the second-highest earner, made $154,881, including $29,936 for paid details and $25,172 in overtime.

Marquis earned nearly twice as much as the mayor of Peabody, a city of roughly 51,400 residents, compared with about 26,700 in Danvers, according to US Census data.


The story has one comment:

The next time Danvers screams there is no money in the budget, that we need to pass an override, remember these salaries. Also remember these people can retire young, with a full pension provided by you. The taxpayer.

9/16/10, 9:12 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

TRUTH:

I don't even know what you are saying. Frank Bruno is NOT British. He is a black living in Britain. Nothing more.

9/16/10, 9:46 AM

Blogger Marc B said...

"And lets not forget the mafia brings in millions, which is spread around the community."

What decade are you living in? Most of the MAFIA went legit or semi-legit after the fallout from the in-fighting that occurred during the whack-crazy drug trade days of late 1970's. Any spreading around of money is done via business with paisan and relatives barely aware of the criminal enterprises operated by their goombah. The MAFIA isn't that big anymore, and have ceded much of the underworld to the much hungrier Russian mob.

9/16/10, 12:44 PM

Anonymous lesley said...

"It is BS that Sicilians are part black or mostly Arab- and I get tired of hearing it. But being of Sicilian descent, I also find it annoying when Internet warriors try to "defend" us by making us out to be Nordic.
In spite of all the different invaders on the island, the majority of Sicilians (with the possible exception of people from a few towns) look distinctly Southern European, and Sicilians have more Greek ancestry than Norman or anything else."


Thanks for some sanity in the Euro-ethnic discussion. What you say makes sense from common-sense observation and history. I have seen perhaps more than few Sicilians who could be from anywhere in Europe, north, south, east or west, but there is a general "Sicilian" or southern Italian look, just like there is an "Irish" or "Czech" look (yes, there is.)
I recall that in Coon's book, one of the chief race-indicators in phenotype, and one that most people cannot put their finger on and don't consider--is that of "striations" in the musculature of the face. In other words, the number and "striations" of the muscle fibers that make up facial expressions. He uses an Italian, an Asian and a "Negro" (African Black) as examples. The Italian is quite the drama king/queen because the face makes so many expressions. Asians are more impassive not just because of facial flatness or their culture, but because their facial musculature is just smoother under the epidermis. African blacks have the smoothest facial musculature of all.

9/16/10, 2:45 PM

Blogger Truth said...

I don't even know what you are saying. Frank Bruno is NOT British. He is a black living in Britain. Nothing more."

No.

Frank Bruno was born and raised in Britain which makes him British... that is, if there is no distinction between a Southern Italian who's lineage is from Greece and Northern Africa, and a Northern Italian who's lineage is from Germany, right?

9/16/10, 5:25 PM

Anonymous Tony T. said...

"What decade are you living in?"

That's the question I pose to you Marc. The mafia is still a huge enterprise on the east coast. You can't build a building in NYC without Italian mob involvement. They may not be bigger than US Steel any more, but their roots run deep and their tentacles stretch far.

9/16/10, 6:14 PM

Anonymous patrick said...

Southern Italy was under Spanish rule for about 440 years (first it was under the House of Aragon from 1282-1492, then Spanish per se from 1492-1714). Spanish surnames and dialect words can still be found in Sicily.

9/16/10, 7:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The mafia is still a huge enterprise on the east coast. You can't build a building in NYC without Italian mob involvement.

Lol. Native NYer here. This hasn't been true for 15 years at least. The Mafia has been pushed out by Russians, Ukrainians, Eastern Europeans and Armenians.

9/17/10, 12:51 AM

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