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Post a Comment On: Steve Sailer: iSteve

"Anti-Human Nature"

21 Comments -

1 – 21 of 21
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So how can I use this to sell Soylent Green more efficiently

2/2/14, 9:13 PM

Anonymous Idiot Denisovan said...

You know, I have no idea what your final paragraph is supposed to mean, and I've got better things to do than wade through all those quotes on the Fitzgerald page you link to and then try to figure out what you're so wittily alluding to.

If you want to make in jokes for the aficionados (and I suspect I'm not the only regular reader who has no idea what you're talking about), you might want to talk down to us idiots a bit. Certainly, i suspect you'd make more general impact (as opposed to winding up with people staring blankly at the page and then moving on, as you put it a few weeks ago) if you'd cut the reader a bit of slack.

2/2/14, 9:55 PM

Anonymous ben tillman said...

Richerson sometimes takes the culture thing a bit too far, but he and Charles Boyd generally do good and interesting work.

The following is an interesting introduction to Boyd & Richerson:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/anthro/faculty/boyd/CrudeSuper/Complex%20for%20Human%20Nature%20III%20clean.PDF

2/2/14, 10:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even if an essentialist concept of human nature is wrong, it doesn't follow that there's no such thing as human nature. Maybe human nature refers to traits of most people grounded in biology (for example, traits we have because of natural selection). That's probably the kind of human nature that evolutionists have in mind, and these tired deconstructions of "essentialism" don't touch it.

2/2/14, 10:21 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is no F. Scott Fitzgerald quote--he could have used W.C. Fields or Mickey Mantle to similar effect. It's just Sailer jerking around anyone foolish enough to engage him, as usual.

2/2/14, 10:31 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Before I go on with this short history, let me make a general observation – the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

2/2/14, 10:34 PM

Anonymous F. Scott Fitzenstarcz said...

There are no second acts in American lives, except for that time Pete Carroll made the Pac-10 his bitch.

2/2/14, 10:56 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's just do away with all measures of central tendency then. Because outliers. And stuff.

2/2/14, 11:02 PM

Anonymous ogunsiron said...

Has Edge been losing it lately ?
It seems to me that this kind of muddle headed pc science wasn't so prominent on that site, especially with people like Pinker taking a lot of room over there.

2/2/14, 11:02 PM

Anonymous consider her birdbrained ways said...

GoldiBlox runs $4m ad (now cleansed of Beastie Boys IP)--if at first you don't succeed...

2/2/14, 11:15 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Using the human nature concept, like essentialism more generally, makes it impossible think straight about human evolution. "

Abandoning the human nature concept makes it impossible to think straight about the limits to social construction.

2/2/14, 11:20 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I have no idea what your final paragraph is supposed to mean"

I think our host's intention was to point out the interactions between social construction and human nature. Neither, when excluding the other, is as powerful as the two together. One has to hold both ideas in one's head at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

2/2/14, 11:23 PM

Anonymous Simon in London said...

Hm. I agree with him that the concept can be used very badly, but there clearly seems to be a human nature as compared to a cat nature or a shark nature, say. We are an omnivorous pack species with very long maturation, and this definitely affects our behaviour when compared to loner species, say. Huge amounts of our brainpower are dedicated to getting-along-with-others problems, and this skews our perceptions just as much as eg lone-predator species' brain focus on prey catching (while avoiding injury) skews theirs. It determines our culture, and the limits of our possibilities.

2/3/14, 2:03 AM

Anonymous slumber_j said...

Yeah, who even knows who this Fitzgerald guy even *is*! Anyway, "F." is like the dumbest first name ever.

That said, I'm really glad Michael Jackson isn't around to see his ideas being thoroughly discredited by visiting professors at UCL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKAh--ss1r0

2/3/14, 4:27 AM

Blogger AMac said...

Peter Richerson's Edge piece reads like a promising first draft. He makes strong arguments against those who sridently hew to an absolutist, binary pro-Human-Nature stance.

His next step should be to engage with some of the people who synthesize evidence and evolutionary theory when discussing these concepts.

I'd suggest dialog with Jayman and hbd chick.

I can imagine some worthwhile insights emerging from Richerson's re-written essay.

2/3/14, 6:24 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why ponder on a half-empty bottle? Drink it for Crissakes.

Neil Templeton

2/3/14, 6:27 AM

Anonymous PatrickH said...

He's one of those effectively Sailersphere types, like more than one NYT op-ed page contributor and some other moles deep in the heart of the enemy. Squid ink, my friends, squid ink, spurted in massively PC protective clouds!

Essentialism is essential to biology. Cladism works in the way it's meant to, all that supposedly Darwinist anti-essentialism is simply irrelevant to the question of essences. The Edge guy was trying to kill human nature, not essences. The nurture-only folk are drowning, and this the kind of straw at which they are clutching.

2/3/14, 6:42 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, in order to refute the strawman idea of "Human Nature" that exists only in his head, he cites scientific studies that make consistent finidngs about Human Nature ("A common finding is that roughly a third of participants act as selfless leaders..."). Ideology really does make you stupid.

2/3/14, 9:26 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Race does not have to mean distinct gene pools with high barriers, as you keep pointing out. Human nature does not have to mean a set of given essential qualities. It appears to be human nature that maybe 30% are selfless leaders, 10% cunning selfish types and 60% pragmatists looking for traction, survival and a fair deal if possible. So isn't that human nature, too: the boundaries around the connected behaviors and their rough distribution?

2/3/14, 9:32 AM

Anonymous Melendwyr said...

Human language varies wildly, with some quite stunning variations, and it seems this is due entirely or almost so to cultural inheritance rather than biological.

Yet how and when we acquire language is clearly biologically determined. Humans generate complex syntaxes even when their cultural sources lack them (as in the creation of creoles from pigdins). Adults are almost incapable of managing that task, children spontaneously excell - again, for clear biological reasons.

Without thinking of essences, it's almost impossible to think. Categorizing things and making preductions based on those assignments is the foundation of all higher thought.

2/3/14, 11:46 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the Crack Up, F.Scott Fitzgerald:

"...the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise."

2/3/14, 7:53 PM

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