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"Jonathan Pollard, all-around terrible person"

55 Comments -

1 – 55 of 55
Anonymous ogunsiron said...

He looks like a mesopotamian or assyrian king.

4/3/14, 4:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If he weren't a member of the tribe, his security clearance probably would have been permanently revoked very early in his career.

4/3/14, 4:30 PM

Anonymous astorian said...

There are probably about 5 billion people mord worthy of my pity than traitor and all-around sphincter Jonathan Pollard.

Still, if he did get out of prison now, after 27 years, I wouldn't think he'd gotten off lightly. Would you?

4/3/14, 4:38 PM

Anonymous Big Bill said...

Hey! He's family! OK, so he may be a scrw-up, but he didn't hurt anybody, right? The prodigal son ought to come home. He just wants to make aliyah. He just wants to "rise up" (aliyah) from the degradation of exile (galut) and find his place with his people.

So we Americans just learn a lesson from this, chalk it up to stupidity (or temporary insanity) and keep all of them away from any sensitive information or positions of power and authority in the future.

No hard feelings. Just don't be such chumps for them in the future.

4/3/14, 4:39 PM

Blogger IHTG said...

Well the peace talks have collapsed or something so relax, Pollard gets to stay in prison for a while longer.

4/3/14, 4:48 PM

Anonymous Dave Pinsen said...

The drug addiction, boasting, and amateurish attempts to sell intel are reminiscent of Daulton Lee (played by Sean Penn in The Falcon And The Snowman). Per Wiki, Lee was sentenced to life in prison but was released on parole in 1998, about 22 years after he was arrested (and hired by Sean Penn as a personal assistant).

4/3/14, 4:53 PM

Anonymous SFG said...

Whatever, IHTG. Motherf***er sold secrets to a foreign power. They should not let him out of jail. The Chinese or Russians would have shot his ass.

Why don't you guys give him a medal? You can pin it on his corpse after we hand it back to you for burial.

4/3/14, 5:01 PM

Anonymous anony-mouse said...

I think I've figured out the reason for all this vituperation.

First let's get to what its not.

Its not because he's an all round terrible person. There are a lot of all round terrible people that haven't spent a day in prison. Now that's a problem. All round terrible people being in prison is good.

Secondly its not about cocaine. He was an adult during the seventies after all. (Wasn't Carter's drug czar let go because of his cocaine use?)

Most importantly its not because he's a traitor. I could name lots of traitors dead or still alive who no one here cares about.

How many people here want to take Aldrich Ames' corpse and drop it 10000 ft? 5000 feet? 2 inches?

Rational? Maybe not.

I remember (may be wrong) about Alger Hiss being mentioned here. He spent less than a third of Pollard's sentence and enjoyed the rest of his life as a martyr. Nobody here fussed so much. How many comments followed the mention of any other traitor?

So what is it?

Cognitive dissonance.

A lot of people here are hugely emotionally wrapped up in the idea that Jews have humongous power in America - and you just can't talk about it.

Then comes this guy Pollard and what do you know? These super-powerful Jews can't get this fat 59 year old out of prison after almost 3 decades of trying, while a whole lot of other criminals have gotten out with ease.

So when its sort of announced that he might, just might, be released, out comes the emotional release. Yesss! Suddenly the whole world is back to normal. What a relief.

Of course he's not going anywhere. as I pointed out before. Deal with it.

4/3/14, 5:21 PM

Anonymous Kibernetika said...

Hey, just give the guy a job driving a bus, like Bloch ;)

4/3/14, 5:25 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Doubt Abramoff was hitting-up anabolic steroids proper in his 40s-- wasn't particularly a beefcake at that stage in life. At that age it would most likely be plain old T which would provide energy/aggression/vigor/fat minimization and perhaps some HGH.

4/3/14, 5:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did Pollard sell secrets to other countries besides Israel?

4/3/14, 5:31 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has Israel ever given back the documents that Pollard stole? Have they ever apologized? Have they cooperated and worked with the US to mend this issue?

How would other countries act in such a matter? I understand that countries spy on each other all the time, including "allies". But, we are constantly told of Israel's special relationship and how important this relationship is to the U.S.

Shouldn't have Israel tipped off the American government in the Pollard situation? Considering the special relationship? Or maybe this relationship is not that special?

Wouldn't Canada tip off America, in their own self interest to maintaining a neighborly relationship if there was a crazy Canadian leaking secrets to the Canadian government? Allies watch out for each others backs, don't they?

I would be really interested in seeing the reaction of Jews, the media, and Israel if Pollard were ever released. Would there be a parade in Israel? Celebrations? Would he go quietly into history books? Who would support the release? And if Israelis were celebrating, should the U.S. really have such a relationship?

4/3/14, 5:35 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guantanamo would be good for Pollard.

4/3/14, 6:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's a glimpse into Steve's understanding of morality.

Pollard: addicted to drugs, conflict-prone, has said a lot of things that aren't true, broke an oath, has acted against the interests of the country Steve loves: terrible person.

Applebaum: presumably sober, presumably gets along with others in her social circle, has said a lot of things that aren't true (I know this because I used to read Slate regularly), presumably hasn't broken any oaths (although we don't know her husband's opinion on that point), has acted against what Steve considers to be his country's interests: good person.

Fights for global power are at least as much ideological as military. The interests of both good and evil, however one defines them, can be at least as easily promoted through prestige media as through armies and secret services.

Being defective and being evil are two different things. Addiction and the inability to get along with the people one wants to get along with are bits of defectiveness. The promotion of forces one considers immoral is, on the other hand, evil. The less defective one is as a person, the more effectively one can promote either good or evil.

I would definitely call a high-functioning, non-defective person who advances the causes I consider immoral an evil person. I'd certainly never use the phrase "good person" to describe him or her. High-functioning evil person - I'm sticking with that terminology.

4/3/14, 6:19 PM

Blogger Whiskey said...

Shapiro seems a Jewish name, and tried to get his clearance revoked.

Pollard is par for the course, Hanssen, Ames, and the "Snowman" from Falcon and the Snowman were all major drug users.

It is not as if in the 1970's onward the Soviets and other nations were not a paragon of dull failure. Ideology is generally not the reason for America to be betrayed, rather money, drugs, sex, and the desire to be important by small men who resent their unimportance.

And this is a huge risk with privatizing the intelligence services under Clinton/Bush -- about half a million private contractors have major security clearances and overall 8 million Americans have security clearances. The idea that our enemies don't know exactly what we are doing or capable of doing is a laugh. The only ones in the dark is the US public.

4/3/14, 6:20 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me just say, I don't care about his motives. I don't care whether he was motivated by ethno-religious loyalty to Israel, general jerkishness, or by cocaine-fueled megalomania. He committed high treason. He should rot in jail for the rest of his life.

4/3/14, 6:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

He looks like a mesopotamian or assyrian king.

Not really. He's too soft and chubby looking. He looks more like a Mesopotamian or Assyrian king's lazy son who's always getting into trouble and embarrassing his father.

4/3/14, 6:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

He looks like a mesopotamian or assyrian king.

He looks like Steve Jobs with some weight on as well.

4/3/14, 6:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Pakistan was an ally at the time.

4/3/14, 6:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Newman!!

4/3/14, 6:55 PM

Anonymous SFG said...

"Pollard: addicted to drugs, conflict-prone, has said a lot of things that aren't true, broke an oath, has acted against the interests of the country Steve loves: terrible person.

Applebaum: presumably sober, presumably gets along with others in her social circle, has said a lot of things that aren't true (I know this because I used to read Slate regularly), presumably hasn't broken any oaths (although we don't know her husband's opinion on that point), has acted against what Steve considers to be his country's interests: good person.

Fights for global power are at least as much ideological as military. The interests of both good and evil, however one defines them, can be at least as easily promoted through prestige media as through armies and secret services.

Being defective and being evil are two different things. Addiction and the inability to get along with the people one wants to get along with are bits of defectiveness. The promotion of forces one considers immoral is, on the other hand, evil. The less defective one is as a person, the more effectively one can promote either good or evil.

I would definitely call a high-functioning, non-defective person who advances the causes I consider immoral an evil person. I'd certainly never use the phrase "good person" to describe him or her. High-functioning evil person - I'm sticking with that terminology."

I don't know if Applebaum's evil per se.

I mean, I don't consider ordinary people who disagree with me politically to be evil. We have a difference of opinion. Of course, Applebaum's in a position to do something about it, so that's different. But evil usually requires intent--similarly, I can't call George W. Bush evil, since the douche was honestly doing what he thought was best for his country. I call him incompetent and snookered.

Applebaum most likely honestly believes she's bringing the light of Western values to Eastern Europe or some hogwash. I wouldn't vote for her if she were a politician, and I would tend not to vote for politicians who would appoint people like her (though with our two party system I have to consider who her replacement would be), but I don't think she's evil. Pollard's evil. Madoff's evil. Applebaum? Drank her own neocon Kool-Aid.

4/3/14, 7:09 PM

Anonymous ben tillman said...

Not really. He's too soft and chubby looking. He looks more like a Mesopotamian or Assyrian king's lazy son who's always getting into trouble and embarrassing his father.

He reminds of Angel Martin, but way, way worse.

4/3/14, 7:19 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pollard is a total P.O.S.. He also looks like a fat Gypsy King.

4/3/14, 7:23 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"Pollard: addicted to drugs, conflict-prone, has said a lot of things that aren't true, broke an oath, has acted against the interests of the country Steve loves: terrible person."

One might also add: traitor.

Anonymous:"Applebaum: presumably sober, presumably gets along with others in her social circle, has said a lot of things that aren't true (I know this because I used to read Slate regularly), presumably hasn't broken any oaths (although we don't know her husband's opinion on that point),"

Meaningless innuendo, but, hey, if it floats your boat...

Anonymous:"has acted against what Steve considers to be his country's interests: good person."

And one might also add the minor detail that Applebaum has not given vital national defense secrets to a foreign power.

4/3/14, 7:25 PM

Anonymous jody said...

leland yee was trying to arrange a sale of missiles and machineguns to muslim terrorists in the philippines.

darrell steinberg immediately stepped in to defend him. i'm sorry, but what's wrong with these people. even when caught red handed with the smoking gun, doing something that's traitor stuff, they still can't bring themselves to say of one of their associates, "Yeah, he's a bad guy and should go away for a long time."

4/3/14, 7:26 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"I think Pakistan was an ally at the time."

In name only.

4/3/14, 7:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is Pollard a MORE terrible person than Boyce or Lee (the Falcon and the Snowman)? Lee was a drug dealer and Boyce escaped from prison and while a fugitive, carried out 17 bank robberies. Yet both were paroled after serving less time than Pollard.

4/3/14, 7:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And one might also add the minor detail that Applebaum has not given vital national defense secrets to a foreign power."

As I said in my original comment, I think that prestige media has at least as much power to influence events as armies and secret services. It's at least as important. Ms. Applebaum is fanning the flames of global war.

4/3/14, 7:31 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"As I said in my original comment, I think that prestige media has at least as much power to influence events as armies and secret services."

Only when military force backs up the prestige media.

Anonymous:"It's at least as important. Ms. Applebaum is fanning the flames of global war."

Get a grip. World War III is not going to break out over the Ukraine.

4/3/14, 7:36 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"Is Pollard a MORE terrible person than Boyce or Lee (the Falcon and the Snowman)? Lee was a drug dealer and Boyce escaped from prison and while a fugitive, carried out 17 bank robberies. Yet both were paroled after serving less time than Pollard."

Pollard supplied vital info on America's nuclear deterrent to the Israelis, which was then given to the Soviets.He should have been executed.

4/3/14, 7:38 PM

Anonymous Svigor said...

Andy Dean said on the radio when this broke that Pollard's coming up for parole within the year and is going to be released anyway. If that's true, it sort of renders moot the question around using Pollard's release as a bargaining chip.

On the other hand, they can't deny him parole if he's already been released.

4/3/14, 7:42 PM

Anonymous David said...

>Nobody here fussed so much [about Alger Hiss].<

Hiss died 18 years ago. Of course nobody at iSteve fussed much about him. Duh.

>How many comments followed the mention of any other traitor?<

Well, Aaron Burr was acquitted 207 years ago. The Rosenbergs were executed 62 years ago. At best, the jury is out on Snowden (I consider him a hero for exposing the US gov's spycraft on its own citizens without also giving much of use to active foreign enemies). Anyway, how many traitors are there who are all these things: a. current, b. real traitors, and c. the subject of perennial hypocritical pleas for release?

Why "hypocritical"? Well, how much longer will the torment of Mordechai Vanunu continue? You want we should make a fuss over Vanunu maybe?

4/3/14, 8:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In name only.

It could only really be anything in name only. It's not powerful enough to meaningfully be anything.

4/3/14, 8:14 PM

Anonymous David said...

>Get a grip. World War III is not going to break out over the Ukraine.<

Just as World War I wasn't going to break out over Serbian independence and World War II wasn't going to break out over Poland.

4/3/14, 8:15 PM

Anonymous Unknown Man said...

"If he weren't a member of the tribe, his security clearance probably would have been permanently revoked very early in his career."

I think that standards for hiring in the DOD and military, and giving security clearances, probably got very low in the 1970's. This was due to the unpopularity of the military after Vietnam/Watergate. I have met several former high ranking officers, who did not impress me at all, that were originally hired in the 70's.

4/3/14, 8:49 PM

Anonymous Mr. Anon said...

"ben tillman said...

He reminds of Angel Martin, but way, way worse."

"C'monnnnn Mannnn!"

Jim Rockford himself couldn't get this Angel out of the fix he's landed in.

4/3/14, 8:52 PM

Anonymous Mr. Anon said...

"anony-mouse said...

Most importantly its not because he's a traitor. I could name lots of traitors dead or still alive who no one here cares about."

As far as I can remember, the Russian government never lobbied the US government to free John Walker, Aldrich Ames, or Robert Hanssen.

"How many people here want to take Aldrich Ames' corpse and drop it 10000 ft? 5000 feet? 2 inches?"

No, life in prison will be fine.

"I remember (may be wrong) about Alger Hiss being mentioned here. He spent less than a third of Pollard's sentence and enjoyed the rest of his life as a martyr. Nobody here fussed so much. How many comments followed the mention of any other traitor?"

Plenty of people fussed about Alger Hiss - asserting his innocence for years after he was convicted. There were people in the 70s who still blamed bad old Richard Nixon for persecuting that genteel commie swine. Then, after the Venona decrypts were made public those people just stopped talking about him.

4/3/14, 9:08 PM

Anonymous Mr. Anon said...

Has Hollywood ever made a movie about Pollard? Why not? They made one about Hanssen, and I believe there was at least a TV movie made about Ames.

4/3/14, 9:10 PM

Blogger Luke Lea said...

Then why are the Israeli's bargaining so hard to get him released? Can you speculate?

4/3/14, 9:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

all-around sphincter Jonathan Pollard
LOL
I wouldn't think he'd gotten off lightly. Would you?
I think Ethel and Julius Rosenberg got off lightly.

4/3/14, 9:35 PM

Anonymous Mr. Anon said...

"Luke Lea said...

Then why are the Israeli's bargaining so hard to get him released? Can you speculate?"

Perhaps in order to recruit more spies, they need to demonstrate to them that they will remain loyal to them, even after they get caught.

4/3/14, 9:43 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/26/arnon-milchan-israeli-spy-past

4/3/14, 9:51 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pollard resurrected!

4/3/14, 9:53 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Sailer I have always admired your columns. However; you just cannot deal with the the fact that the new Jewish elite is hostile to the American nation, they hate anyone who is not on their team. That means you and that means me-got it. No amount of reasoning matters. Pollard will be released because he is Jewish and served their community by spying on the US and thats it.

4/3/14, 10:00 PM

Anonymous Miguel S. said...

Obviously the guy's a bad seed; his supporters in Israel don't think he's a saint. Despite all that, they're willing to accept him as one of their own. I guess every family has a black sheep. None of which is a good reason to release him without a parole hearing.

4/3/14, 11:22 PM

Blogger J said...

Then why are the Israeli's bargaining so hard to get him released?

Israel doesnt leave wounded soldiers on the battlefield. That's why. Pollard may have been a rotten apple, an addict and a criminal (using inside information to profit on the stock exchange), but spies are, as a rule, despicable, except on the movies, where they are clean idealistic heroes.

4/4/14, 1:43 AM

Blogger reiner Tor said...

anony-mouse:

These super-powerful Jews can't get this fat 59 year old out of prison after almost 3 decades of trying, while a whole lot of other criminals have gotten out with ease.

You have totally demolished the straw-man argument that Jews are omnipotent.

However, I'd be happy if you named those other criminals who have gotten out with ease.

4/4/14, 3:27 AM

Blogger reiner Tor said...

Israel doesnt leave wounded soldiers on the battlefield

Because people handing classified documents to Israeli spies are rarely prosecuted, Pollard is probably the biggest disincentive to spying on behalf of Israel. (Not that he only spied for Israel.) If he gets released, that disincentive will be further weakened.

4/4/14, 3:30 AM

Anonymous Hunsdon said...

J said: Israel doesnt leave wounded soldiers on the battlefield. That's why.

Hunsdon said: And that's admirable. But that's also proof that sometimes (maybe even just very, very rarely; maybe somewhat more frequently) the interests of Israel and the interests of the United States are not identical.

4/4/14, 5:28 AM

Anonymous Cail Corishev said...

He reminds of Angel Martin, but way, way worse.

Perfect. Angel Martin without the charm, plus a look in his eye that makes you want to chase any kids away from him.

4/4/14, 6:14 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Steve, you should avoid posting pictures or any content that needs to load from another domain name (in this case davidduke.com)

You're handing the IP address of every single person who loads the page to whichever site you got the picture from.

If you want to give them credit, do so in the caption of the image, but for gods sake, actually upload the picture to blogger. Never cross link.

/rant

4/4/14, 8:23 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Israel doesn't leave wounded soldiers on the battlefield."

Exactly right. I vaguely remember reading that the CIA had a similar policy during the Cold War of ensuring that those who spied for CIA weren't left in the clutches of the enemy (e.g. Ryszard Kukliński), as it encouraged others to do the same.

The Israelis probably don't really give a rat's backside whether this odious little worm of a man actually gets out or not. Heck, Israel probably doesn't even want the bastard stinking up their country. By making frequent and public efforts on his behalf, though, they're sending a loud message to everyone else who might be thinking about helping them- "If you help us out, we'll look out for you and protect you with all the resources at our disposal, no matter what happens, and no matter how much of a scumbag you may be".

4/4/14, 9:47 AM

Anonymous David said...

>you should avoid posting pictures or any content that needs to load from another domain name<

Yes, and we commenters might consider first running our intended hyperlinks through tinyurl.com and using the "preview tinyurl" option.

Like this.

As you can see at that link, this gives readers a better chance of seeing a link's url address before they click on it. We could try this for a while and see if the courtesy catches on. (No, I don't work for tinyurl.com.)

Alternatively, readers could encrypt-up, or, they could simply not give a damn and behave like free men and women and click on whatever they like. For example, if I wanted to read something on David Duke's site, I would simply click there. Doesn't necessarily mean I endorse his material, does it? But at work I should probably prefer to defer any curiosity, morbid or otherwise. After all, work in these United States has nothing to do with curiosity, imagination, intellect, or using one's brains.

4/4/14, 6:34 PM

Blogger Randall Parker said...

astorian, Since he wasn't shot by a firing squad he got off lightly.

4/4/14, 7:23 PM

Blogger Patriarch said...

You have arrived at your venomous conclusions from Wikipedia, which is derived from writers who fabricate.

Try interviewing pollard's sister.

AMERIKKA is a captured operation, thanks in part to regurgitators as yourself.

You truly lack logic & integrity.

VENGEANCE IS YOUR MOTIVE.

SOCIOPATHY IS YOUR EXCUSE FOR EXISTENCE.

4/5/14, 2:21 PM

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