Mga app ng Google
Pangunahing menu

Post a Comment On: Steve Sailer: iSteve

"Cochran and Hawks"

20 Comments -

1 – 20 of 20
Anonymous Fred said...

After reading that title I almost expected the story to be about Cochran coming up with an evolutionary explanation for hawks like [insert name of Jewish Bush foreign policy official here (if there are any left)].

Interesting though that brains have been getting smaller. Does that mean that blacks with smaller brains are more advanced than whites with larger brains?

3/28/07, 7:00 AM

Anonymous ben tillman said...

Computers have also been getting smaller.

3/28/07, 7:46 AM

Anonymous Monroe said...

It doesn't make clear what part of the brain is shrinking. I expect is whatever helps survival in a tough "wild" environment, rather than a easy domesticated one.

Looking at Australian Aboriginals for a clue provides contradictory signals. The Australian Aboriginals have smaller brains, but a larger visual cortex, than Caucasians (AAs are known to be better trackers etc) - but this also causes a large forehead.

Today's civilisation tends to concentrate daily activity on very minor mental activity, followed by witless (over) consumption. Rather like a human battery chicken farm. I'd love to see data on very recent (last 100 years) changes in brain morphology.

3/28/07, 7:47 AM

Anonymous RBC said...

Brains getting smaller is an essentially inevitable side effect of domestication. Wolves are smarter than dogs, for example. In some sense, dog breeds with different hunting specialties (pointing, retrieving, etc.) are mentally equivalent to wolf puppies stuck at a certain stage of development. The same thing happened more recently: when Dmitri Belyaev tried to breed tame foxes for fur farming, they started acting like dogs. The best overall explanation is that in domesticated species, the brain simply does not develop for as long, so it ends up smaller -- just as the primary difference between human and chimpanzee brains is that ours develop for longer. For a good introduction to this kind of research, check out the first chapter of Nature via Nurture by Matt Ridley.

This is consistent with other genetic research posted here in 2005 showing that humans have genetically domesticated ourselves over the last 50,000 years just as much (or more) than we have dogs, cows or wheat. In fact, one author of the current paper is quoted in that column as calling it central to his own research, for which we'd "just have to wait". Apparently the waiting is over.

As for the black-white difference, start with the brain size over time graph in J. Phillipe Rushton's Race, Evolution and Behavior which shows where different races split off the main curve of hominid brain growth. Then have all three human subgroups shown curve downward again at the right edge of the graph (the recent past). Whites' brains kept getting bigger for longer than blacks' brains did, and now both are getting smaller again. The racial difference seems to be a different effect from the one discussed in this paper.

3/28/07, 8:04 AM

Anonymous Monroe said...

rbc is broadly correct, except dogs did not evolve from wolves, but from more probably from wild dogs ... contrary to popular opinion. see http://darrennaish.blogspot.com/2006/10/controversial-origins-of-domestic-dog.html

3/28/07, 8:25 AM

Anonymous tommy said...

Hawks and Cochran, by contrast, argue that the trend “is visible even in the last tens of thousands of years,” Lahn wrote. It “runs counter to the feeling in some quarters that the evolution of the human phenotype [form] has slowed down or even stopped in our recent past.”

Honestly, I don't see how this is tremendously surprising. We haven't been out of Africa for more than 150,000 years. The differentiation of human races has obviously occurred with incredible rapidity since that time. Civilization wasn't a factor for any group of human beings until less than 10,000 years ago. For some remote groups of people in the Amazon or Papua New Guinea it still isn't.


A “thing that should probably worry people is that brains have been getting smaller for 20,000 to 30,000 years,” said Cochran. But brain size and intelligence aren’t tightly linked, he added.

I'm curious as to whether anyone can provide more details about this. How have they determined this? I believe Neanderthals are thought to have had slightly larger brains than modern humans.

3/28/07, 10:25 AM

Anonymous joshrandall said...

Evolution occuring even more rapidly than previously thought? Fascinating! I wonder how our daily lives influence the process of evolution? Well,lets see;last night I watched American Idol and Dancing WithThe Stars. You dont...supose...there kood be sum...re, uhmm,re,regreshin..okurran on a daly...uhhhh...basis...basis loaded...wut wuz I sayin? O no i hungri got banana? Ug! Oooga booga!

3/28/07, 11:32 AM

Anonymous corvinus said...

Lemme 'lone, I'm 'batin'. I sure want some Brawndo. It's got electrolytes. Cr@p, I'm out of money. I like money.

3/28/07, 12:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

A larger brain might allow for more processing of various sensory signals to evaluate danger, opportunity, etc. wrt animals, other potentially dangerous humans, etc.

While a smaller more specialized brain might allow for deeper focus on tasks. What makes humans unique is the acceleration in our tool-making. If you look at tools over the last 10,000 years, you go from stone tools to bronze to iron/steel tools.

And the societies that can successfully organize around better tools, particularly for warfare, tend to be more successful.

The Egyptians, Hittites, Persians etc organized around the chariot and bow tools. But were beaten by the Greeks organized around the heavily armored and shielded spearmen/pikemen. Who were beaten by the Romans organized around lines rather than squares of the same thing with short stabbing swords. Who were beaten by nomadic horsemen. Who morphed into armored knights with heavy Roman-style pikemen infantry. And so on.

All of THAT requires an evolutionary change in perception of a broad range of threats to ever more extreme specialization with emphasis on co-operation. A stone-age tribe in deep New Guinea might require huge generalization from each member; while today's modern societies require extreme abstract thought (such as this article and the discussion).

Cochran and Hawks work might (yes I'm the Dark Ages commenter) indicate how Europe was able to move rapidly from a situation where literacy was almost unknown, life was extremely rural and tribal and optimized for physical survival rather than intellectual activities and specialization, to well intellectual activities and specialization.

If I had to guess I'd venture that dynastic struggles, lots of migratory pressure (all those tribes fighting over the corpse of the Roman Empire), and various Muslim and Viking raids led to warfare being the "starter seed" for a climb upward to specialization.

[European brains circa say 50,000 BC to perhaps say 1100 AD may have been optimized for sensory perception and processing, i.e. will a freeze be coming, is that man approaching friend or foe, is the food spoiled or safe to eat, where is that spear thrust coming from? And African brains may be coming to that transition to specialization later.]

IQ seems to measure abstract reasoning (a specialization) and racial differences in IQ might be driven by more or less specialization driven natural selection. I.E. the degree to which tool making is genetically rewarded. Cochran and Hawks suggest that this genetic rewarding for tool making / specialization might be far more rapid than we think.

[One thing that stands out in thinking about Dark Ages Europe and Africa is the difference in ship building and armies. Starting from Athens and other Greek City states to the Romans and Vikings and various other European tribes, the greatest military (and hence evolutionary advantage) came from combined naval and land force power. Requiring lots of co-operation and specialization. African's lack of need to venture to the sea, compared to the relative paucity of the Med's poor farming soil and need for the sea for fishing/trading may explain the difference in the civilizational rise.]

3/28/07, 2:07 PM

Anonymous blueman said...

The Egyptians, Hittites, Persians etc organized around the chariot and bow tools. But were beaten by the Greeks organized around the heavily armored and shielded spearmen/pikemen. Who were beaten by the Romans organized around lines rather than squares of the same thing with short stabbing swords. Who were beaten by nomadic horsemen. Who morphed into armored knights with heavy Roman-style pikemen infantry. And so on.

..and the worlds biggest power was sent into a tailspin by a few boxcutter knives.

According to military old-hands, one of the biggest missteps by the US in the operations in Iraq and Afganistan, was the lack of "human intelligence". I'm not kidding - they use those words. What that means is that, for instance, there is only six native Arabic speakers amongst the whole US army in Iraq.

Time and time and time again through history, the dominant power becomes mentally lazy, relying on it's superior technology. The archetypical example is Rome. This cycle seems inevitable.

3/28/07, 3:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

What, nothing about Obama's forehead?

3/28/07, 3:41 PM

Blogger James said...

Their findings are based on fossil bones? Specifically fossil skulls? How much can they really say just based on that? Humans are more than brain.

3/28/07, 3:48 PM

Blogger Steve Sailer said...

Tool-making goes back millions of years, but it was crude, mostly involving whacking rocks together. Then about 50,000 years ago, you see a great leap forward in material culture. By the time of the Iceman in the Alps 4 or 5 thousand years ago, even illiterate tribesmen carry an impressive variety of tools that a modern backpacker wouldn't sneer at.

I've vaguely theorized that the growth of tool-making capacity is related to nerdism in modern humans, while leaders of war and large scale hunting parties were the equivalent of the modern big men in politics and business.

3/28/07, 4:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uh oh, some former NBA player said jewish people were crafty and shrewd:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2816356

Everyone knows there are no group differences. I've never noticed any differences between black people and jewish people for instance.

3/28/07, 6:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Human evolution:

Somebody on another post commented on AIDS and what its effect on Africans might be and he brought up intelligence. I have always wondered about that and have gotten so bored with people who speculated about "genetic mutation that would keep one from succumbing...". To me, it seems greater intelligence will be the ultimate weapon and will spread far faster than waiting for the holy grail mutation. It is a lifestyle disease and life is an I.Q. test.
I believe Christianity, or more accurately, Judeo-Christian values are important vis a vis intelligence. Monogamy, prohibition of pork (especially in ancient times when it may have been more dangerous to eat), circumcision, no sex with other men or animals, etc. all have one thing in common: they cut down on germ transmission.

In our time, it has been fascinating to learn about how much germs affect us and have become implicated in ailments once thought understood (15 years ago, nobody used hand sanitizer, now it's ubiquitous). I think we're only at the tip of the iceberg.
Further, while we are able to appreciate the worst results of some of the STDs: death, infertility pre-term labor, surely the ability to produce the best child possible would be hindered in more invisible ways that we haven't yet discovered.

Emily

3/28/07, 7:42 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I've vaguely theorized that the growth of tool-making capacity is related to nerdism in modern humans, while leaders of war and large scale hunting parties were the equivalent of the modern big men in politics and business."

Exactly Mr. Sailer and that's my point again. [The Dark Ages obsession guy again]

WHAT if both requirements (tool-making and military leadership) were encapsulated in one person? That the leader must be both "nerd" perhaps not a tool-maker in the garage tinkerer sense but one who uses complex and abstracted military systems, as one gigantic "tool" and also "leadership" defined as getting people to do things they don't like to do (run a good risk of nasty death)?

Could that be the Dark Ages inflection point? The requirement to understand boat-building and naval power (with all those Vikings sailing in unexpectedly) and how to use an Army as a "tool" along with a Navy?

Blueman -- given trends isn't relying on superior tech the better bet? The Romans didn't adapt to the changing times (not enough real Romans of certain loyalty fighting) and got beat. Given that today's tech will obsolete soon isn't that a huge competitive advantage?

What's interesting is how many guys who fought in Iraq are coming into the Defense industry with lots of interesting new solutions for IEDs, snipers, mines, etc.

3/28/07, 11:41 PM

Anonymous blueman said...

given trends isn't relying on superior tech the better bet?
Well, the problem is relying. It's human psychology to reach for the footstool and relax once a certain level of technology and advantage has been reached. But the next door neighbors won't be relaxing. The Japanese reached their pinnacle, and now they're taking a nap while South Korea and China are poised to overtake. That's the cycle. In the US, helped by labor-saving devices (and increasingly thought-saving devices) the population is unbelievably fat, dull, ignorant and lazy. You can't expect the US to hold on to it's position when it's a nation of mouth-breathers who elect a president in their own image.

3/29/07, 4:12 AM

Anonymous MarcZ said...

Somebody on another post commented on AIDS and what its effect on Africans might be and he brought up intelligence. I have always wondered about that and have gotten so bored with people who speculated about "genetic mutation that would keep one from succumbing...". To me, it seems greater intelligence will be the ultimate weapon and will spread far faster than waiting for the holy grail mutation. It is a lifestyle disease and life is an I.Q. test.

The impact of HIV/AIDS on African intelligence will be zero to none. The best defense against contracting HIV/AIDS in Africa is simply to live in a society that practicies male circumcision. This is a cultural norm that has nothing to do with intelligence.

True, in countries like Swaziland and South Africa with roaring epidemics, there might be some selection going on. But the majority of sub-Saharan Africans do not live in countries that have or will probably ever have such high prevalance rates.

3/29/07, 7:12 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Male circumsion does not protect against AIDS.

I really dont know what differences in brain size and morphology between "blacks" and "whites" has to do with natural selection either, since the degree of gene flow between different human population in the past 200,000yrs since our speciation has been such that greater differences exist between the genotypes of two white americans born in the same district of Salt Lake, than between the genotypes of one of those americans and an Australian aborigine born in the Northern Territory.

The self-domestication research is great, check out niche construction research as well (Odling-Smee, Laland, etc - www.nicheconstruction.com), which would suggest our domesticated status to be some sort of social niche, a manipulation of our social environment which ahs in turn affected our genotype, hand in hand with our construction of our physical environment. Domestication doesnt necessarily lead to stupidity, but it does cause different selection pressures to act on different areas of the brain - like, for example, tolerance and sensitivity to others' actions and intentions (shown to emerge in foxes after only 50yrs of intentional selection for tameness). It also causes body size to decrease generally, and to become less robust, which has clearly happened in humans (though probably more due to food processing diminishing the need for large jaw muscles).

If you need a reference for those look at Richard Wrangham's work - he's done various experiments on the effects of domestication on cognitive traits, and has hypothesised cooking to be responsible for some of our unique evolutionary characteristics, which is also an approach that would be interesting to use in terms of recent changes in brain morphology, since clearly our diet as well as our lifestyle has changed considerably in the last few centuries...early agriculturalists certainly shrank in stature in response to a lack of nutrients and spread of disease, due both to urban living and a reliance on type 3 staple foods...

Charlotte

6/2/07, 12:39 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

tramadol online no prescription buy tramadol online mastercard overnight - best way buy tramadol online

4/11/14, 1:34 PM

Comments are moderated, at whim.
You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i>, <a>

Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author.

You will be asked to sign in after submitting your comment.
OpenID LiveJournal WordPress TypePad AOL