Firstly, this wasn't during Bioshock Infinite crunchtime. It was in June 2013, Bioshock had shipped a few months prior. It also wasn't in Burial at Sea crunchtime, since that shipped in 2014. The timeline is worth mentioning since there seems to be an implication that I was screwing with your life at a critical time. Maybe I'm misreading your intent there, but one way or the other that isn't true.
Secondly, did PR show you the rest of the conversation or just that email? Did they tell you about how we sat down with Ken and sorted all of this out or how he had your back and dealt with it as you'd expect a professional to? Do you honestly think Ken Levine of all people is intimidated by social media metrics and not willing to take chances with me, particularly when my videos on Bioshock had been published months before? The idea that we could shakedown a AAA studio with some twitter numbers is laughable. They were only posted to show that there was an issue between two people with significant followings that we wanted resolved privately rather than publicly, but I can see how it could have come off as bragging or threatening. I doubt however that Irrational of all people felt threatened. Ultimately, Ken took time out of his busy day to sort out a situation you took part in creating and now you are dragging it up again a year later. I don't think that does anyone any favours. If it's really been simmering for over a year with you, why didn't you contact me?
Thirdly, we tried to talk to you about this first and you wouldn't respond on Twitter. We tried to find your contact email but the only email we could find was an old 1up account that was inactive. You didn't respond on Twitter either, you seemed content to just leave the image up there and let it simmer. I tried to reach out to you with the audio blog, since Twitter is a terrible place to have a discussion (ironically the reason you posted that image in the first place was because I was saying the exact same thing, which you omitted from your picture, here is the full conversation with the context - https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/339876246223724545)
As I tried to explain to you, this was directly following a video I'd put out which was a dissenting opinion on used games. I got shit on for it hard, there were thousands of @replies, a lot of them demanding to debate me on it, for some reason. Debating them all would have been impossible and twitter would have been an awful place to do it even if that weren't true. The point was that they were trying to respond in 140 characters to a 30 minute long video and the futility of doing that. That should be clear if you read the full in-context conversation. What you posted was a screenshot you found somewhere, that was deliberately snipped to make me look like a complete asshole. That screenshot was circulating on /v/ at the time if I recall correctly. By the time that had been posted I was running out of patience and getting very snippy with people, especially since some of them were being outright insulting. The guy I replied to wasn't, I have this horrible habit of taking it out on other people, I have a lot of faults. However what you call narcissism I call "this is something I posted while hundreds of people were bombarding me demanding I respond to each and every one of them". That's not narcissism, that was just the reality of that day, when your twitter feed is scrolling faster than you can read it, it makes your head spin and it's easy to lose your cool. I like to think I suck less now, but I don't know.
[Part 2, ran out of characters on the first comment]
At the end of the day, here's what you did, tweeted an out of context picture you found online out and said "Fucking yuck, TotalBiscuit is truly gross". It's hard not to interpret that as a message of "go shit on this person". Twitter isn't a private room it's a public broadcast system and many of the people following you are industry folks I work with. When you said that, you caused both me and you a bunch of issues and after it was clear you didn't want to talk about it publicly we took it private as quickly as possible to prevent further public conflict that would have done nobody any good. From the other side of the fence that looked liked someone who worked on a game that I'd covered (and had some issues with), throwing out a little bit of character assassination without effort to discuss what he even thought was wrong in the first place, it was just a "Hey, this person sucks, here's a picture that says so".
You've still never apologised for doing that, which kind of sucks, but honestly I was over it. It happened over a year ago. Seems you aren't over it though. So how about this. I apologise for the tone of the email my employee sent. It was unnecessarily confrontational and could have been more diplomatic than it was. It was unnecessarily cold and came off as brash and threatening to you. As his employer the buck stops with me. I don't agree that it is taboo to talk to a persons employer when they make public allegations against someone else in the industry, it seems like the most sensible course of action if they won't talk to you personally. Looking back on it with hindsight though, I can understand that this made you feel threatened and caused you trouble in your workplace. I am sorry about that.
That said, your implication a few days ago which brought all of this back up again that claimed this is par for the course for us is incorrect. You are the only person this has ever happened with. This is all a little bit sad honestly, I think we'd get along well, if not for all of this. Its a shame your first impression of me was an out-of-context image you found on 4chan.
Hope things are going well for you and wish you every success in the future.
I appreciate your response and will reply when I am able. Understand that we have a newborn baby here. One thing to note, though: Once Infinite shipped I continued to crunch on unshipped DLC as well as Clash in the Clouds, which we completed in five weeks. I crunched for years on end and was not aware of you or anything you had to say on Infinite. Anyhow, I suspect I'll find time to write again over the weekend.
Another thing to note in the meantime: Once your email made it to HR, I was prohibited from writing a word on the subject; from saying anything critical about any matter connected to the industry in which I work. This continued even after the studio's closure.
And that sort of thing is why I think you're a shit. I mean you went screaming to a dude's boss because he said a bad thing about you on Twitter and you thought it'd make his friends think you weren't cool.
And then you basically proved it. You can't even accept that even if HE did the wrong thing, you sure as hell did NOT do the right thing.
September 10, 2014 at 9:59 PM
Anonymous said...
I should clarify. For someone who makes a living as a critic, you can't take it one bit. I'm an argumentive asshole and I can take it better then you.
September 10, 2014 at 10:00 PM
Anonymous said...
Also I wish I could edit but:
Fuck's sake, you have cancer? I really hope you're okay.
I dunno man, I'm being lectured by someone whose sole contribution to the discussion is to call me a shit over and over again. It's hard to take that particularly seriously.
If that is the level of your critique then not much will come of this discussion. You can take it better than I can? That's good, hopefully that serves you well in life. May you never be in a situation where you have to take it from thousands of people a day so that your limits are ever tested. Wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Me having cancer isn't relevant to the discussion and is not a shield I'm going to hide behind. Yeah stress isn't good for me but that's my problem, not yours.
September 10, 2014 at 10:03 PM
Anonymous said...
Dude, it's not a shield. At least not in this case. I was actually looking something up on you and saw it. Even if it's not my problem, I still can't help but worry.
Now, I ain't an ass to be an ass, and I don't actually hate you or anything. I'm more disappointed severely in you, as I really use to be your fan. When I say you're a shit, it means I hope you can be better.
You did apologize for the gag order being put on him, but I hope you realize in the future that what you did probably didn't make any of those people you were hoping to impress like you any more. You get my drift? I was pretty inartful, but I was pretty upset with what I read and your reaction. So I will apologize for that:
I'm sorry.
September 10, 2014 at 10:11 PM
Anonymous said...
Dude, it's not a shield. At least not in this case. I was actually looking something up on you and saw it. Even if it's not my problem, I still can't help but worry.
Now, I ain't an ass to be an ass, and I don't actually hate you or anything. I'm more disappointed severely in you, as I really use to be your fan. When I say you're a shit, it means I hope you can be better.
You did apologize for the gag order being put on him, but I hope you realize in the future that what you did probably didn't make any of those people you were hoping to impress like you any more. You get my drift? I was pretty inartful, but I was pretty upset with what I read and your reaction. So I will apologize for that:
I'm sorry.
September 10, 2014 at 10:23 PM
Anonymous said...
Sorry, my browser flubbed and double-posted while I was trying to refresh.
September 10, 2014 at 10:26 PM
Anonymous said...
What the fuck are you guys doing? You've chosen the most terrible medium in the history of the world to hash out a misunderstanding, in front of THOUSANDS of people? Pick up the phone/Skype or anything other than the Internet (I recommended meeting over a beer, where all problems are solved) and talk to each other. If you were really, truly interested in some kind of dialogue, that's how you do it. Anything else is grandstanding.
I actually tried to add Shawn on Skype a couple of days ago but I guess I just found an inactive account or something. I'm happy to discuss it privately but I don't have any up-to-date contact information for him.
September 10, 2014 at 10:33 PM
Anonymous said...
Hopefully that's a good enough prompt for him to provide it to you.
I know you just tried to post this on Reddit r/games but it was already removed. After taking the time to read the majority of this and to see why I should care, I must say that I agree completely with TB. I've gotten in arguments with him back on Reddit r/games when he used to frequent them, but they never ended up with me saying publicly to thousands of followers that he is a jerk or an asshole.
As someone who has worked in the industry as a professional journalist for a couple of years, of course he would be upset that you publicly cursed at him in front of many people who he might work with in the future. Of course he can just take criticism like you suggested, but at the same time you must understand the concern about souring relations with people he may, or already does, business with.
Furthermore, why are you bringing it up now? It sounds like he tried to talk to about it half a dozen times in many different ways and you are still very negative, accusatory and upset about it, but it seems like you never tried to actually talk to him about it. No wonder this got instantly dropped for the subreddit's new submissions.
When you list your employer on your twitter profile, you are automatically acting as their representative when posting.
That's why TB got his PR guy involved.
It's not that Shawn Elliot said disparaging things, it's that an employee representing irrational games said disparaging things. This means that, effectively, Irrational Games said disparaging things about a critic.
Hence, TB had Irrational Games contacted to clear up the issue.
Anyone with a brain capable of abstraction can just as easily come to an opposite conclusion. An employee of a company does not speak for the company. Only the company can speak for the company. It's essentially how all human conversation works.
It doesn't really matter though. Any slight made against TB in this scenario is only a deflated ego.
A person who criticizes people publicly for money is mad that a person criticized them publicly, then starts campaign to silence their criticism (a thing, by the way, which TB has stated he is very much against in many of his videos). How odd. I guess that only works out when the criticism affects *his* livelihood or reputation.
"Do you honestly think Ken Levine of all people is intimidated by social media metrics and not willing to take chances with me, particularly when my videos on Bioshock had been published months before? The idea that we could shakedown a AAA studio with some twitter numbers is laughable."
If that were true he never would have met with you in the first place.
Writing the employer is fucked up. Shawn never claimed to be the voice of IG. Totalbiscuit, you are the company. You have made yourself a brand. Anything you say is connected to you as a company. It inevitably (may) influence your livelihood. You ought to understand that attacking you cannot so easily be separated from your company. But attacking Shawn through his company is very different. You took the risk of making your person a brand. Shawn never did. Ok his tweet wasn't that great but you overreacted.
But why waste more energy on this than needed by posting this in public.
If you both, sadly, can't work this out over the phone or in person. I suggest you each go your own way.
There a far bigger problems in this world than egos.
"... and said Fucking yuck, TotalBiscuit is truly gross".... "It's hard not to interpret that as a message of go shit on this person."
This is exactly right. You would either have to be stupid with your head completely in the sand, or know exactly what you are doing here, and any reasonable person would guess that even an amateur internet user would know they are doing the latter.
Guess what, if TB wanted to be a juvenile twat, he could have easily sicked 10x the number of people back on to your twitter and the company you work for and created a massive shit storm back, but why are you essentially saying you wish the argument continued so you could have this!?
So what does TB do here? SHOCK HORROR, I BETTER BLOG POST ABOUT THIS.... He resolves it like an adult, in stead of acting like an incapable child he tries to mediate the issue and put it to rest. (SILENTLY, IN PRIVATE).
So, a year passes..... and as soon as you are possibly able to, you throw down the hatchet again because you still want to fight over the internet... I mean are you serious here? Are you new???
It seems like I'm riding TB's coat tails here but there is just no other way to look at it. TB completely has the right of this. Like, if you were just two people that didnt have online personalities / not involved in the industry, go ahead and butt heads all day. But no good can come out of a journalist and somebody in the industry fighting over twitter...
If you just game theory for a split second and think about how you would want somebody to respond who has 200,000 followers, would you prefer that TB said something to provoke thousands (tens of thousands), in response (perhaps you are that destructive/bored that you were just looking for a reason to actually be fired in the first place). How can you still be so ignorant after being able to calmly reflect on the situation for 12 months.
Honestly, very surprised here. Also surprised that nobody has posted any contrarian opinions to your original post. Theres my 2 cents, take it as you will.
If there is something truly egregious or offensive I'm missing here I'd love to know.
So what does TB do here? SHOCK HORROR, I BETTER BLOG POST ABOUT THIS.... He resolves it like an adult, in stead of acting like an incapable child he tries to mediate the issue and put it to rest. (SILENTLY, IN PRIVATE).
Except it wasn't in private. it was in the most juvenile schoolyard way possible, by running to this person's employer and trying to get him in trouble at work for actions done in his free time.
September 11, 2014 at 10:16 AM
Comment deleted
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Hope you guys can work this out. I'm a fan of you both and reading both sides with equal empathy it seems this is a very unfortunate misunderstanding that led to negative consequences.
Your both good guys that made mistakes. And you both have intelligent and interesting views on the industry. I think given the right circumstances you would both get along great. I know I would LOVE to hear a podcast with both of you on it!
"Anyone with a brain capable of abstraction can just as easily come to an opposite conclusion. An employee of a company does not speak for the company. Only the company can speak for the company. It's essentially how all human conversation works."
Really? And how would the company do that? It has no voice of its own, other than what the people in the company and the people running the company give it. If the company had decided that Shawn was not representing them when making his comments, then there wouldn't have been an issue. The thing is that Shawn's comments DID reflect on the company.
Whether Shawn's comments were bad enough to actually go as far as a gag order is another matter entirely and, while probably not intentional, TB did actually ask for a gag order. He didn't just ask for a public apology, he also asked that Shawn should "abstain from posting such remarks in the future". He probably didn't mean to silence Shawn completely. He probably meant to say "We would appreciate it if Shawn would be so kind so as to issue a public apology to my employer and be a bit more careful about what he posts in the future". I can see how TB believes that what he actually wrote, comes down to that, but I can also see how Shawn's employer interpreted it differently.
"I don't agree that it is taboo to talk to a persons employer when they make public allegations against someone else in the industry, it seems like the most sensible course of action if they won't talk to you personally." And this seems to be the real issue here: Is it acceptable to talk to a person's employer about personal statements made by the employee?Example: the Netherlands had a police agent who made a personal statement about how gross he thought the gay pride was. The police issued a statement that this was this man's personal view and that they would talk to him about it. Why? Because, even in his free time, he can be seen as representing the police and his views could be seen as representative of the police. The example here is a bit less clear cut of course, but what makes me feel that TB's action was acceptable is this: "his 16,000 followers, which include a lot of industry professionals we are in contact with, have collaborated with or wish to in the future (names include Tom Ohle, Ben Kuchera, Evolve PR, Justin Kranzl, etc)." It was affecting TB's professional life. Even then TB of course first should've tried to contact Shawn about this personally... which he did.
And then we come to the next issue. TB felt like he wasn't getting a response, TB contacted his employer. Shawn claims TB didn't give him enough time to respond. You know what? I agree with both of them. For TB it probably felt a bit like waiting at the dentist with a horrible tooth ache and you just have no idea when the dentist will have time for you or if he even will have time for you. But who constantly checks his messages and e-mails? You just never would get any shit done.
So... I understand why Shawn thinks TB didn't give him enough time. And I understand why TB says that he tried to contact Shawn personally and didn't get any response. For all he knew, no response would be coming at all.
"Looking back on it with hindsight though, I can understand that this made you feel threatened and caused you trouble in your workplace. I am sorry about that." I think this apology is indeed warranted. While I believe TB had the right to contact Shawn's employer, he should've worded it differently. Maybe he should've waited longer to contact Shawn's employer, but that's really hard to say and as I said, I understand why he didn't wait longer.
"I'm fairly sure TB and I have buried the hatchet. I apologize for that unwarranted first Tweet, he says he's sorry I was silenced."
"We've worked things out." And then they do the matue thing and it's basically over.
It is as simple as Sean Jackson says. If you reference your employer on your twitter account then you are effectively speaking as their representative whether that was then intention or not. As big of an ahole as TB can be, he did the correct thing here. The only thing I would say is that the initial letter to Irrational Studios could have been more diplomatic and emphasised a desire to clear up any misunderstanding and not be viewed as an attempt gag or silence Shawn.
hahahahaha oh man, this was a hell of a read. all I got from all this (comments included) was that TB was his ever-petulant self, and managed to squeak out some half-sincere olive branch. Then a bunch of TB's hangers-on decided they'd come in here and set the record straight by further reinforcing that most fans of TB are idiots. Brilliant. God Bless.
Jesus, I can't believe TB ran to Shawn's ex-boss to get him in trouble over that one tweet. And how can TB's response be perceived as anything other than a veiled threat to Irrational, and an attempt to fuck up Shawn's employment and/or ability to publicly express personal opinions.
"Let's get this out here right now. I'm a 23 year old law graduate with an IQ of 155."
I used to work with a guy who regularly informed or reminded people he was a member of Mensa. He was a giant fucking tool.
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Update: TB and I spoke briefly and agreed to continue the conversation in the comments section. “We run a popular gaming channel with over one million subscribers and have a Twitter following of almost 190,000[...] Shawn proceeded to tweet the aforementioned remark about TotalBiscuit to his 16,000 followers.”
–email excerpt from Cristian Baltoc, Media Relations Specialist | CynicalBrit, LLC
[Image]
Some would wear their Gamerscores, or the social media metric equivalent, on their sleeves. People who assess their self-worth and see the world through these figures – through the accumulation of “like,” “favorite,” “retweet,” “subscribe,” and “upvote” clicks -- are unpleasant. Self as brand bugs me. But we're all human and, hey, we all want to make sure mom watches when we're on the diving board. Again, what's grotesque is when we take these stats to signify worth. I find this particular character flaw so off-putting that I've probably screamed “shit” at times when all there actually was, was something that smelled a lot like it (or at least the inside of a top hat). I felt sure I whiffed it in the following Twitter exchange:
[Image]
Whether I was right or wrong, I responded that “TotalBiscuit is truly gross.” This was a personal reaction to the above and another set of screencapped exchanges in circulation. (Seeing a silhouette of what in haberdashery genealogy is the fedora's kissing cousin might've contributed to my conclusion.) I don't watch Youtube or “Let's plays” or Twitch (outside of EVO tourneys) and honestly had never heard of TotalBiscuit. I certainly wasn't speaking for the studio that employed me at the time, nor would any thinking person assume I was. In any case, TB was clearly concerned with my partially informed opinion and, curiously, wrote and performed a recorded response (I say curiously, since I didn't pay a penny for it). I listened and intended to reply at length when it was convenient. In the interim, others on Twitter addressed him on their own accord but I'll come back to that.
A few days later -- this being before I found time to chat, and during BioShock Infinite crunch – Irrational's HR department forwarded me an email written on TB's behalf. In it, his dedicated PR person wrote:
“We run a popular gaming channel with over one million subscribers and have a Twitter following of almost 190,000. I would like to bring to your attention the fact that Shawn Elliot, one of your employees, posted a derogatory remark earlier today about my employer, namely "Fucking yuck. @totalbiscuit is truly gross". That remark was deduced from an out-of-context screenshot he had discovered of a partial conversation between my employer and an obnoxious person over Twitter. The image had been circulating on one of 4chan\'s hate threads in the /v/ section, where Shawn or a follower of his might've stumbled upon it.
Without confirming whether that image represented the entire conversation, Shawn proceeded to tweet the aforementioned remark about TotalBiscuit to his 16,000 followers, which include a lot of industry professionals we are in contact with, have collaborated with or wish to in the future (names include Tom Ohle, Ben Kuchera, Evolve PR, Justin Kranzl, etc). Needless to say this tarnishes my employer's image greatly, all because of a misunderstanding. We felt this most certainly constitutes getting off on the wrong foot, which led to my employer posting an audio clip directed at Shawn, meant to explain the entire situation in detail (you can listen to it here: http://bit.ly/10WLPxs). Here is a screenshot of Shawn's tweet and a link to his actual tweet: https://twitter.com/ShawnElliott/status/343151754554269697 // http://i.imgur.com/hQkBdMY.png We would appreciate it if Shawn could abstain from posting such remarks in the future and if he would be so kind so as to issue a public apology to my employer, as unverified offensive statements aimed at industry professionals do nobody any good.”
Anyone who's worked in the service industry – and a great many of the people who follow the few of us who get to create or critique games for paychecks are there now – is familiar with the indignity of being called into the boss's office because a customer is willing to jeopardize jobs for slight service hiccups. You know the sort; they’re likely the same species that files abusive copyright infringement claims when their products are criticized. I lived that life, working grocery throughout undergrad education as well as when in graduate school while also teaching college courses. Among the many perks of salaried employment is partial impunity from such shit. I was surprised to see it happen here; surprised when, strictly speaking, it wasn't a customer this time and I wasn't on the clock; surprised that a personal opinion and insufficiently speedy response would so offend someone who, on Twitter, had only a day or two prior asked, “Do you live in a place where you can just order someone around without employing them?”and “Wanna tell me which human on this planet is entitled to someone else's time?” Tattlebiscuit, it seemed, had staked claim to such a place on just such a planet.
This week, aware that, at long last, I meant to write a response since I'm no longer silenced on the topic as his complaint once ensured, our ever humble top hat reminded us that he “hold(s) more power and influence than any games journalist[...]” He asks, “Would arguing with him/her publicly on Twitter have been a better course of action?” As established, he attempted to argue about it with me publicly on Twitter. The trouble was that I wasn't able to respond with sufficient speed.
In addition, he states that “we had one incident outside of the DMCA stuff (where we used actual lawyers because it was a legal issue) of contacting a dev to see if we could work out what all the negativity was about and how we might best solve it.” One would expect a self-proclaimed critic, of all people to understand that unfavorable subjective opinions are not necessarily problems in need of “solving.” Finding narcissism offensive is not a claim whose truth we can test. An example of a claim whose falsehood we can confirm is “he/she sicced a large number of people on me.” If anyone bothered TB on my behalf, I apologize, as I certainly never encouraged anyone to do so; never condoned it. Ever. If on planet TB, any and all unsolicited comments from Twitter followers constitutes “siccing,” I'll happily supply evidence and circumstantial witnesses that suggest TB has explaining to do.
“I had no interest in getting into it publicly with an employee of one of this [sic] studios,” he goes on. “So I did the professional thing which was to contact the studio to try and find out what was happening. What should I have done differently?” Perhaps in TotalBiscuitville on the noted narcissist planet TotalBiscuit, contacting the employer of a person who has a poor opinion of you is a material conditional. You see, if Marie is in Paris, then she's in France. And if someone, anyone, says I'm gross, you better bet I go and tell their boss. Pleasant enough place if you can stomach the brim sweat.
On our far more familiar planet, requesting that I “abstain from posting such remarks” and “issue a public apology” is not an attempt to “find out what was happening.” When sent to a studio and preceded with a reminder of your social media reach, it is rather – again on this planet – understood as a demand with the possible threat of retaliation. In no world would TotalBiscuit admit that this was his intent. Still, in few other worlds would a studio head run the risk of taking his word on it. Any chance at all that one thin-skinned critic would be biased against a collaborative project as a result of beef with the personal opinion of one member of a massive team is too much to accept.
Update: TB's response is in the comments section below.
I'm fairly sure TB and I have buried the hatchet. I apologize for that unwarranted first Tweet, he says he's sorry I was silenced. We disagree on whether or not contacting a person's employer for publicly expressed personal opinion (that isn't sexist, racist, homo- or transphobic, etc.) is cool. In AAA game dev, it guarantees gag orders.
I also understand that it seems petty to speak on this now after so much time passed. The thing is, I wasn't able to say anything about it at all until now. I faced the the consequences of the outcome every day. It seems I'm tough to contact, too, as the only attempt to talk about it that I was ever aware of was on Twitter. And indeed I was crunching at the time (I worked on Clash in the Clouds, Burial at Sea 2, as well as unshipped DLC that was in the works prior to Infinite's launch). Regardless, we've worked things out.
posted by Shawn Elliott at 6:10 PM on Sep 10, 2014
"The time that TotalBiscuit totally told on me."
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1 – 200 of 210 Newer› Newest»Hi Shawn, few things.
Firstly, this wasn't during Bioshock Infinite crunchtime. It was in June 2013, Bioshock had shipped a few months prior. It also wasn't in Burial at Sea crunchtime, since that shipped in 2014. The timeline is worth mentioning since there seems to be an implication that I was screwing with your life at a critical time. Maybe I'm misreading your intent there, but one way or the other that isn't true.
Secondly, did PR show you the rest of the conversation or just that email? Did they tell you about how we sat down with Ken and sorted all of this out or how he had your back and dealt with it as you'd expect a professional to? Do you honestly think Ken Levine of all people is intimidated by social media metrics and not willing to take chances with me, particularly when my videos on Bioshock had been published months before? The idea that we could shakedown a AAA studio with some twitter numbers is laughable. They were only posted to show that there was an issue between two people with significant followings that we wanted resolved privately rather than publicly, but I can see how it could have come off as bragging or threatening. I doubt however that Irrational of all people felt threatened. Ultimately, Ken took time out of his busy day to sort out a situation you took part in creating and now you are dragging it up again a year later. I don't think that does anyone any favours. If it's really been simmering for over a year with you, why didn't you contact me?
Thirdly, we tried to talk to you about this first and you wouldn't respond on Twitter. We tried to find your contact email but the only email we could find was an old 1up account that was inactive. You didn't respond on Twitter either, you seemed content to just leave the image up there and let it simmer. I tried to reach out to you with the audio blog, since Twitter is a terrible place to have a discussion (ironically the reason you posted that image in the first place was because I was saying the exact same thing, which you omitted from your picture, here is the full conversation with the context - https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/339876246223724545)
As I tried to explain to you, this was directly following a video I'd put out which was a dissenting opinion on used games. I got shit on for it hard, there were thousands of @replies, a lot of them demanding to debate me on it, for some reason. Debating them all would have been impossible and twitter would have been an awful place to do it even if that weren't true. The point was that they were trying to respond in 140 characters to a 30 minute long video and the futility of doing that. That should be clear if you read the full in-context conversation. What you posted was a screenshot you found somewhere, that was deliberately snipped to make me look like a complete asshole. That screenshot was circulating on /v/ at the time if I recall correctly. By the time that had been posted I was running out of patience and getting very snippy with people, especially since some of them were being outright insulting. The guy I replied to wasn't, I have this horrible habit of taking it out on other people, I have a lot of faults. However what you call narcissism I call "this is something I posted while hundreds of people were bombarding me demanding I respond to each and every one of them". That's not narcissism, that was just the reality of that day, when your twitter feed is scrolling faster than you can read it, it makes your head spin and it's easy to lose your cool. I like to think I suck less now, but I don't know.
[text too long for one comment, continued above]
September 10, 2014 at 7:55 PM
[Part 2, ran out of characters on the first comment]
At the end of the day, here's what you did, tweeted an out of context picture you found online out and said "Fucking yuck, TotalBiscuit is truly gross". It's hard not to interpret that as a message of "go shit on this person". Twitter isn't a private room it's a public broadcast system and many of the people following you are industry folks I work with. When you said that, you caused both me and you a bunch of issues and after it was clear you didn't want to talk about it publicly we took it private as quickly as possible to prevent further public conflict that would have done nobody any good. From the other side of the fence that looked liked someone who worked on a game that I'd covered (and had some issues with), throwing out a little bit of character assassination without effort to discuss what he even thought was wrong in the first place, it was just a "Hey, this person sucks, here's a picture that says so".
You've still never apologised for doing that, which kind of sucks, but honestly I was over it. It happened over a year ago. Seems you aren't over it though. So how about this. I apologise for the tone of the email my employee sent. It was unnecessarily confrontational and could have been more diplomatic than it was. It was unnecessarily cold and came off as brash and threatening to you. As his employer the buck stops with me. I don't agree that it is taboo to talk to a persons employer when they make public allegations against someone else in the industry, it seems like the most sensible course of action if they won't talk to you personally. Looking back on it with hindsight though, I can understand that this made you feel threatened and caused you trouble in your workplace. I am sorry about that.
That said, your implication a few days ago which brought all of this back up again that claimed this is par for the course for us is incorrect. You are the only person this has ever happened with. This is all a little bit sad honestly, I think we'd get along well, if not for all of this. Its a shame your first impression of me was an out-of-context image you found on 4chan.
Hope things are going well for you and wish you every success in the future.
September 10, 2014 at 7:56 PM
I appreciate your response and will reply when I am able. Understand that we have a newborn baby here. One thing to note, though: Once Infinite shipped I continued to crunch on unshipped DLC as well as Clash in the Clouds, which we completed in five weeks. I crunched for years on end and was not aware of you or anything you had to say on Infinite. Anyhow, I suspect I'll find time to write again over the weekend.
September 10, 2014 at 8:37 PM
Another thing to note in the meantime: Once your email made it to HR, I was prohibited from writing a word on the subject; from saying anything critical about any matter connected to the industry in which I work. This continued even after the studio's closure.
September 10, 2014 at 8:42 PM
That's really unfortunate. I hadn't realised it would go that far, I'm sorry to hear about what sounds like an effective gag order.
September 10, 2014 at 8:58 PM
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
September 10, 2014 at 9:48 PM
Oh, "officially", well that changes everything
September 10, 2014 at 9:53 PM
And that sort of thing is why I think you're a shit. I mean you went screaming to a dude's boss because he said a bad thing about you on Twitter and you thought it'd make his friends think you weren't cool.
And then you basically proved it. You can't even accept that even if HE did the wrong thing, you sure as hell did NOT do the right thing.
September 10, 2014 at 9:59 PM
I should clarify. For someone who makes a living as a critic, you can't take it one bit. I'm an argumentive asshole and I can take it better then you.
September 10, 2014 at 10:00 PM
Also I wish I could edit but:
Fuck's sake, you have cancer? I really hope you're okay.
September 10, 2014 at 10:02 PM
I dunno man, I'm being lectured by someone whose sole contribution to the discussion is to call me a shit over and over again. It's hard to take that particularly seriously.
If that is the level of your critique then not much will come of this discussion. You can take it better than I can? That's good, hopefully that serves you well in life. May you never be in a situation where you have to take it from thousands of people a day so that your limits are ever tested. Wouldn't wish that on anyone.
September 10, 2014 at 10:03 PM
Me having cancer isn't relevant to the discussion and is not a shield I'm going to hide behind. Yeah stress isn't good for me but that's my problem, not yours.
September 10, 2014 at 10:03 PM
Dude, it's not a shield. At least not in this case. I was actually looking something up on you and saw it. Even if it's not my problem, I still can't help but worry.
Now, I ain't an ass to be an ass, and I don't actually hate you or anything. I'm more disappointed severely in you, as I really use to be your fan. When I say you're a shit, it means I hope you can be better.
You did apologize for the gag order being put on him, but I hope you realize in the future that what you did probably didn't make any of those people you were hoping to impress like you any more. You get my drift? I was pretty inartful, but I was pretty upset with what I read and your reaction. So I will apologize for that:
I'm sorry.
September 10, 2014 at 10:11 PM
Dude, it's not a shield. At least not in this case. I was actually looking something up on you and saw it. Even if it's not my problem, I still can't help but worry.
Now, I ain't an ass to be an ass, and I don't actually hate you or anything. I'm more disappointed severely in you, as I really use to be your fan. When I say you're a shit, it means I hope you can be better.
You did apologize for the gag order being put on him, but I hope you realize in the future that what you did probably didn't make any of those people you were hoping to impress like you any more. You get my drift? I was pretty inartful, but I was pretty upset with what I read and your reaction. So I will apologize for that:
I'm sorry.
September 10, 2014 at 10:23 PM
Sorry, my browser flubbed and double-posted while I was trying to refresh.
September 10, 2014 at 10:26 PM
What the fuck are you guys doing? You've chosen the most terrible medium in the history of the world to hash out a misunderstanding, in front of THOUSANDS of people? Pick up the phone/Skype or anything other than the Internet (I recommended meeting over a beer, where all problems are solved) and talk to each other. If you were really, truly interested in some kind of dialogue, that's how you do it. Anything else is grandstanding.
September 10, 2014 at 10:26 PM
I actually tried to add Shawn on Skype a couple of days ago but I guess I just found an inactive account or something. I'm happy to discuss it privately but I don't have any up-to-date contact information for him.
September 10, 2014 at 10:33 PM
Hopefully that's a good enough prompt for him to provide it to you.
September 10, 2014 at 10:37 PM
I know you just tried to post this on Reddit r/games but it was already removed. After taking the time to read the majority of this and to see why I should care, I must say that I agree completely with TB. I've gotten in arguments with him back on Reddit r/games when he used to frequent them, but they never ended up with me saying publicly to thousands of followers that he is a jerk or an asshole.
As someone who has worked in the industry as a professional journalist for a couple of years, of course he would be upset that you publicly cursed at him in front of many people who he might work with in the future. Of course he can just take criticism like you suggested, but at the same time you must understand the concern about souring relations with people he may, or already does, business with.
Furthermore, why are you bringing it up now? It sounds like he tried to talk to about it half a dozen times in many different ways and you are still very negative, accusatory and upset about it, but it seems like you never tried to actually talk to him about it. No wonder this got instantly dropped for the subreddit's new submissions.
September 10, 2014 at 11:50 PM
"Tattlebiscuit", "narcissist", "TotalBiscuitville on the noted narcissist planet TotalBiscuit", "our ever humble top hat"...
Are you trying to squash the beef or create more, Shawn?
September 11, 2014 at 2:38 AM
this is a lot of bull shit for seven words
September 11, 2014 at 5:03 AM
When you list your employer on your twitter profile, you are automatically acting as their representative when posting.
That's why TB got his PR guy involved.
It's not that Shawn Elliot said disparaging things, it's that an employee representing irrational games said disparaging things. This means that, effectively, Irrational Games said disparaging things about a critic.
Hence, TB had Irrational Games contacted to clear up the issue.
This is an exceedingly simple concept.
September 11, 2014 at 6:10 AM
To TB: feel free to DM me with contact info on Twitter. I haven't turned Skype on in many months and so won't see any activity there.
September 11, 2014 at 7:00 AM
@SeanJackson: It isn't that simple though.
Anyone with a brain capable of abstraction can just as easily come to an opposite conclusion. An employee of a company does not speak for the company. Only the company can speak for the company. It's essentially how all human conversation works.
It doesn't really matter though. Any slight made against TB in this scenario is only a deflated ego.
September 11, 2014 at 7:22 AM
You would have to follow me on Twitter Shawn for me to be able to DM you
September 11, 2014 at 7:28 AM
All set on my end. Says you need to follow me now. Alternatively, there's LinkedIn.
September 11, 2014 at 7:36 AM
A person who criticizes people publicly for money is mad that a person criticized them publicly, then starts campaign to silence their criticism (a thing, by the way, which TB has stated he is very much against in many of his videos). How odd. I guess that only works out when the criticism affects *his* livelihood or reputation.
September 11, 2014 at 7:44 AM
This comment has been removed by the author.
September 11, 2014 at 8:04 AM
Lokai, if you are addressing me, you're incorrect. I did not attempt to post anything about this to Reddit.
September 11, 2014 at 8:05 AM
"Do you honestly think Ken Levine of all people is intimidated by social media metrics and not willing to take chances with me, particularly when my videos on Bioshock had been published months before? The idea that we could shakedown a AAA studio with some twitter numbers is laughable."
If that were true he never would have met with you in the first place.
September 11, 2014 at 9:10 AM
Writing the employer is fucked up. Shawn never claimed to be the voice of IG.
Totalbiscuit, you are the company. You have made yourself a brand. Anything you say is connected to you as a company. It inevitably (may) influence your livelihood. You ought to understand that attacking you cannot so easily be separated from your company. But attacking Shawn through his company is very different. You took the risk of making your person a brand. Shawn never did.
Ok his tweet wasn't that great but you overreacted.
But why waste more energy on this than needed by posting this in public.
If you both, sadly, can't work this out over the phone or in person. I suggest you each go your own way.
There a far bigger problems in this world than egos.
(Totalbiscuit, i wish you a fast recovery.)
September 11, 2014 at 9:15 AM
"... and said Fucking yuck, TotalBiscuit is truly gross".... "It's hard not to interpret that as a message of go shit on this person."
This is exactly right. You would either have to be stupid with your head completely in the sand, or know exactly what you are doing here, and any reasonable person would guess that even an amateur internet user would know they are doing the latter.
Guess what, if TB wanted to be a juvenile twat, he could have easily sicked 10x the number of people back on to your twitter and the company you work for and created a massive shit storm back, but why are you essentially saying you wish the argument continued so you could have this!?
So what does TB do here? SHOCK HORROR, I BETTER BLOG POST ABOUT THIS.... He resolves it like an adult, in stead of acting like an incapable child he tries to mediate the issue and put it to rest. (SILENTLY, IN PRIVATE).
So, a year passes..... and as soon as you are possibly able to, you throw down the hatchet again because you still want to fight over the internet... I mean are you serious here? Are you new???
It seems like I'm riding TB's coat tails here but there is just no other way to look at it. TB completely has the right of this. Like, if you were just two people that didnt have online personalities / not involved in the industry, go ahead and butt heads all day. But no good can come out of a journalist and somebody in the industry fighting over twitter...
If you just game theory for a split second and think about how you would want somebody to respond who has 200,000 followers, would you prefer that TB said something to provoke thousands (tens of thousands), in response (perhaps you are that destructive/bored that you were just looking for a reason to actually be fired in the first place). How can you still be so ignorant after being able to calmly reflect on the situation for 12 months.
Honestly, very surprised here. Also surprised that nobody has posted any contrarian opinions to your original post. Theres my 2 cents, take it as you will.
If there is something truly egregious or offensive I'm missing here I'd love to know.
September 11, 2014 at 9:31 AM
So what does TB do here? SHOCK HORROR, I BETTER BLOG POST ABOUT THIS.... He resolves it like an adult, in stead of acting like an incapable child he tries to mediate the issue and put it to rest. (SILENTLY, IN PRIVATE).
Except it wasn't in private. it was in the most juvenile schoolyard way possible, by running to this person's employer and trying to get him in trouble at work for actions done in his free time.
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This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
September 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM
Hope you guys can work this out. I'm a fan of you both and reading both sides with equal empathy it seems this is a very unfortunate misunderstanding that led to negative consequences.
Your both good guys that made mistakes. And you both have intelligent and interesting views on the industry. I think given the right circumstances you would both get along great. I know I would LOVE to hear a podcast with both of you on it!
September 11, 2014 at 1:29 PM
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September 11, 2014 at 6:12 PM
"Anyone with a brain capable of abstraction can just as easily come to an opposite conclusion. An employee of a company does not speak for the company. Only the company can speak for the company. It's essentially how all human conversation works."
Really? And how would the company do that?
It has no voice of its own, other than what the people in the company and the people running the company give it. If the company had decided that Shawn was not representing them when making his comments, then there wouldn't have been an issue. The thing is that Shawn's comments DID reflect on the company.
Whether Shawn's comments were bad enough to actually go as far as a gag order is another matter entirely and, while probably not intentional, TB did actually ask for a gag order. He didn't just ask for a public apology, he also asked that Shawn should "abstain from posting such remarks in the future". He probably didn't mean to silence Shawn completely. He probably meant to say "We would appreciate it if Shawn would be so kind so as to issue a public apology to my employer and be a bit more careful about what he posts in the future". I can see how TB believes that what he actually wrote, comes down to that, but I can also see how Shawn's employer interpreted it differently.
"I don't agree that it is taboo to talk to a persons employer when they make public allegations against someone else in the industry, it seems like the most sensible course of action if they won't talk to you personally."
And this seems to be the real issue here: Is it acceptable to talk to a person's employer about personal statements made by the employee?Example: the Netherlands had a police agent who made a personal statement about how gross he thought the gay pride was. The police issued a statement that this was this man's personal view and that they would talk to him about it. Why? Because, even in his free time, he can be seen as representing the police and his views could be seen as representative of the police. The example here is a bit less clear cut of course, but what makes me feel that TB's action was acceptable is this: "his 16,000 followers, which include a lot of industry professionals we are in contact with, have collaborated with or wish to in the future (names include Tom Ohle, Ben Kuchera, Evolve PR, Justin Kranzl, etc)." It was affecting TB's professional life. Even then TB of course first should've tried to contact Shawn about this personally... which he did.
And then we come to the next issue. TB felt like he wasn't getting a response, TB contacted his employer. Shawn claims TB didn't give him enough time to respond.
You know what? I agree with both of them.
For TB it probably felt a bit like waiting at the dentist with a horrible tooth ache and you just have no idea when the dentist will have time for you or if he even will have time for you.
But who constantly checks his messages and e-mails? You just never would get any shit done.
So... I understand why Shawn thinks TB didn't give him enough time. And I understand why TB says that he tried to contact Shawn personally and didn't get any response. For all he knew, no response would be coming at all.
"Looking back on it with hindsight though, I can understand that this made you feel threatened and caused you trouble in your workplace. I am sorry about that."
I think this apology is indeed warranted. While I believe TB had the right to contact Shawn's employer, he should've worded it differently. Maybe he should've waited longer to contact Shawn's employer, but that's really hard to say and as I said, I understand why he didn't wait longer.
"I'm fairly sure TB and I have buried the hatchet. I apologize for that unwarranted first Tweet, he says he's sorry I was silenced."
"We've worked things out."
And then they do the matue thing and it's basically over.
Nothing to see here, folks. ;-)
September 12, 2014 at 12:29 AM
It is as simple as Sean Jackson says. If you reference your employer on your twitter account then you are effectively speaking as their representative whether that was then intention or not. As big of an ahole as TB can be, he did the correct thing here. The only thing I would say is that the initial letter to Irrational Studios could have been more diplomatic and emphasised a desire to clear up any misunderstanding and not be viewed as an attempt gag or silence Shawn.
September 19, 2014 at 5:59 PM
hahahahaha oh man, this was a hell of a read. all I got from all this (comments included) was that TB was his ever-petulant self, and managed to squeak out some half-sincere olive branch. Then a bunch of TB's hangers-on decided they'd come in here and set the record straight by further reinforcing that most fans of TB are idiots. Brilliant. God Bless.
January 27, 2015 at 11:17 PM
Jesus, I can't believe TB ran to Shawn's ex-boss to get him in trouble over that one tweet. And how can TB's response be perceived as anything other than a veiled threat to Irrational, and an attempt to fuck up Shawn's employment and/or ability to publicly express personal opinions.
"Let's get this out here right now. I'm a 23 year old law graduate with an IQ of 155."
I used to work with a guy who regularly informed or reminded people he was a member of Mensa. He was a giant fucking tool.
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