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"De Palma Blog-A-Thon: Redacted (2007)"

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Blogger James Hansen said...

Well, let me first say this is a solid defense of REDACTED. The reasoning is sound, although I can't say I agree with everything. I do think its important film to watch and discuss, even if it isn't as successful as it could be (so thinks me). I also don't think you need to get quite as defensive when you have Hoberman, Foundas, and Ebert on your side, but I understand the annoyance at the largely negative critical response.

But I have a problem with some other implications you sort of half heartedly place in the beginning of the review, which I just want to ask you about. Even though you bring up De Palma's early films (and seem to support them), you cast off his mid career (most popular) work as immature. And, even while you call him one of "the greatest living filmmakers", you cast off his his entire body of work pre-CASUALTIES OF WAR in the same paragraph. I wonder if you really think this, or, in wanting to build a defense of one of his more derided works that you love, you overstated a negative reaction to his other works in order to make your praise of REDACTED even greater. It just sort of a troublesome inconsistency for me in this piece, and I wonder how far it actually extends for you.

September 11, 2009 at 2:45 PM

Blogger Ratnakar Sadasyula said...

Excellent post on Redacted, though have not seen this flick, its on my must watch list. Loved Casualties of War, even though the ending was not too great, i still feel it should take its place along other Vietnam War classics, Apocalypse Now, Platoon, Deer Hunter.

That begs the question, do both Casualties of War & Redacted suffer from poor timing? Consider the Vietnam War movies started hitting the screen, after the war ended, at least those with an anti war message. During the actual war, none actually dared to make a movie showing the seamy side of the war.

And same with Redacted too, is the negative reaction due to the fact, that it shows the nastier side of a war that is still raging on. Is it that its too prickly and close to reality, that people are finding it hard to accept. Or maybe the fact that people really don't want to debate it, feeling it would demoralize the troops?

September 11, 2009 at 3:02 PM

Blogger Ratnakar Sadasyula said...

Again i still am not able to understand why Casualties of War flopped? Can't blame it on timing, as i guess Platoon too was released around same time. Or was it that people compared this with Platoon, and it came rather short? Or was it because they could not accept Fox in a serious dramatic role?

September 11, 2009 at 3:04 PM

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September 11, 2009 at 4:09 PM

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September 11, 2009 at 4:19 PM

Blogger Tony Dayoub said...

One could argue, as I have before at this site, that Redacted's substance is a bit on the preachy side, i.e. the very same example you use in your own review about how the first casualty in the war will be the truth is quite the groaner.

As for the films James brings up... calculated, maybe. But immature? Sisters and Dressed to Kill has a lot of psychosexual stuff going on in the subtext. It may not be as well-informed as psychology would be today, but it certainly sought to be somewhat sophisticated in its time. I think you are comparing films without taking into account their context in terms of the times in which they were released, a dangerous exercise when appreciating a director's artistic competence.

Yes, some of his films are silly, deliberately so like Body Double, Raising Cain and Femme Fatale, gonzo films that, as I observed elsewhere on the net, were regrouping way-stations for De Palma who had just taken some significant beatings by critics/audiences on the films he worked on just prior to those. But they were nonetheless ambitious for his stretches in technique vs. what you term "substance."

I'm very surprised that you don't recognize the same immaturity in a work like Mission to Mars, which seems like a very commercial and hollow work, less personal than the films you were so quick to dismiss as immature.

September 11, 2009 at 4:28 PM

Anonymous Todd Ford said...

Absolutely the best piece I've yet read about Redacted which I think is possibly De Palma's best work since Hi, Mom. (I'm still considering The Black Dahlia of all things.) I wrote a piece here that intersects with your thoughts from time to time.

September 11, 2009 at 4:34 PM

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September 11, 2009 at 7:54 PM

Blogger Tony Dayoub said...

I think your confusing humor with immaturity and grimness with maturity. Redacted is most immature when it is at its most earnestly grim and manipulative. And Dressed to Kill is at its most self-assured and mature when De Palma masterfully manipulates you into forgetting you know what's going to happen next because you've seen Psycho countless times.

Even Hitch knew that tongue-in-cheek drollness enhances terror when mashed up next to it.

I wonder if you would call Annie Hall one of Woody Allen's immature films?

September 11, 2009 at 8:28 PM

Anonymous Geoff said...

Good review of REDACTED, Adam-- although I disagree that the final montage is anything near "useless," and in fact, I feel the final (albeit staged) photo is the most important, powerful image of the film. (I will discuss the ending of REDACTED a bit more in my own Blog-A-Thon piece later this weekend.)

I would also disagree that Hoberman ultimately disliked REDACTED-- the "authentic rage" that he wrote of appears to be one of the things he actually likes about the film (earlier in the review, he writes that REDACTED is "powerful, polarizing, and disturbing even in the context of the war's ongoing horror stories").

September 11, 2009 at 8:34 PM

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September 11, 2009 at 8:45 PM

Blogger Ryan Kelly said...

Adam, tremendous piece. Even if I can't really get behind the film, I can still appreciate a damned fine piece of writing about it.

Not to gang up on you here, but I too would have to take exception to De Palma's pre-Casualties of War films being 'immature'. Maybe some of his '80s work could be classified in that way, but he was essentially making movies within the Hollywood system, one that had changed deeply since he started working within it in the '70s. Casualties is, if anything, a continuation of his queries into morality, which is a key element of his thrillers as well. Casualties is as much about other movies and subverting conventions as his thrillers, as well, so I don't think it's as much of an anomaly in his career as others do.

Nor is Redacted, which is very much an expression of things he'd been dealing with for most of his career (indeed, going back to the "Be Black Baby" portion of Hi, Mom!); the camera's inherent manipulative capabilities, morality, psycho/sexual manifestations of masculinity. The key difference between Redacted and Casualties of War, looking beyond the obvious difference in technique, is that Casualties of War is liberal humanism at its most challenging, Redacted strikes me of an example of vicious politics. It's not even the politics themselves that I take major exception to in the film, it's the tone --- it was accused of being hateful towards troops (and De Palma's condescending remarks about being piteous towards the troops simply reinforces how patronizing he's being), but it's pretty much condescending towards every one of its stereotyped characters as well (I mean, naming the guy who does the right thing 'Lawyer'??? Give me a break). Casualties of War is great in the same way Do the Right Thing is; it's humanism-at-all-costs, to the point of even being making us sympathize with the unthinkable. This is unfashionable, but also a very important element of art; not to appeal to our already standing impressions (which is what I feel Redacted does), but rather to make us consider things we previously wouldn't have. Casulaties of War is about how good people can be pushed to do bad things --- Redacted seems to be about how shitty people do shitty things.

I just don't find anything illuminating about Redacted. I find some of the formal exercise elements interesting, but it doesn't come together to form anything meaningful for me. The hammy, showboat acting doesn't much help me; I find the defense of the acting that you listed in your piece to be reasonable, but that doesn't explain why the acting is more over the top than it is in a film that isn't pretending to be a documentary. And you cite the performance of the girl who got raped as being something special, but I didn't feel that we got any sense of her as a human being as we did of the Vietnamese girl in Casualties. The movie, like the soldiers who rape her, just sees her as an object.

September 11, 2009 at 10:09 PM

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September 12, 2009 at 1:10 AM

Blogger Ryan Kelly said...

Adam, I'm not so sure I understand your logic. A movie about people with telekinesis must be immature because of its subject matter? A film can only be sophisticated if John Cassavetes doesn't get blown up? Dare I say, these are just surface elements and don't necessarily speak to what Carrie and The Fury are really about; and that is, adolescence. And in that respect, they're two of the most honest films about growing up that I can think of.

So I fail to see how Hi, Mom!, Obsession, Blow Out or the two aforementioned films are 'immature' in any way, shape, or form. We're all polemical about these things but it's just a notion that I don't agree with.

Yes, naming the characters after their defining traits it just one of the things I find groan-inducing things about Redacted; along with its self-importance, vitriol, and cheap college-point polemics. If De Palma trying to re-capture the 'angry young man' within him somehow counts as 'maturity' as opposed to a kind of depressing artistic regression then, by all means, give me his 'immature' works.

September 12, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Blogger Tony Dayoub said...

I have to back up what Ryan just said. Wonderfully written as your piece is, as James started off these comments by pointing out, it really doesn't convince me, as much as make me feel you drank the same Kool-Aid De Palma offers in the making-of shorts on the Redacted DVD.

If it sounds like I'm angry, I apologize, but I am. It seems like you're demonstrating a callous dismissiveness for every movie De Palma made before you were born, with the exception of his political/satirical films which must strike some chord with you on a personal level. While there's no doubt De Palma has had a frustratingly uneven career, soe of his best and most mature films come from this era.

September 12, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Blogger Expos 1983 Blog said...

I think Redacted is interesting, as an updated version of Casualties of War (with the fractured form speaking perfectly expressing the difference between a tragedy viewed in retrospect and one that is ongoing)

I don't, however, think the concept of "maturity" can help a critic--this thread offers proof enough of that...

De Palma's films are ALL investigating the same very important things: subject/object theory, social performance under the sign of patriarchy, the radical impersonality of evil (and the horrifying specificity of suffering), the value (despite its ultimate inadequacy) of empathy and emotion

the films take many different approaches to these questions--and not every item in the canon was created equal--but they are all clearly the work of a very focused artist, and it's a mistake to see powerful political engagement only in the ones that make explicit reference to "important" "real world" "issues"...

Dave

September 12, 2009 at 6:45 PM

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September 12, 2009 at 6:48 PM

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September 12, 2009 at 6:55 PM

Blogger James Hansen said...

I'm away from the computer for two days and look at all I missed! I'll chime back in...

Adam- I think its pretty clear that you are placing political activism (overt or otherwise) in "mature" work and anything that is more "genre" driven as immature. I just have a fundamental disagreement with that, and have a hard time thinking you LOVE something that you would also call immature. I think you sort of give this away when you mention Spielberg and say his work prior to SCHINDLER (or COLOR PURPLE) would be immature. Again, political activism = grown up and mature for you. I'm not trying to suggest there is something "wrong" with that perspective, but I think its a pretty limiting one with which to approach film.

I don't even think its a "it was sophisticated at the time" as Tony maybe suggests because, if you're stuck on auteurism (shakes fist!!!), then you should be looking at intent, right? What is it riffing on, pastiching, playing around with. If its going over the top, why is it doing so? Because its immature? Or because its rooting itself in a different style and toying with it? Doing that and making it work is not an easy thing to achieve, otherwise overly obvious/blunt satire would actually be funny. Immature films seems stupid and out of place when they play with pastiche (i.e. Meet The Spartans kind of stuff) but when they know the area and nail it then its hard to cast them off as immature as you seem to do.

Also - a point on Hoberman - they don't let critics who don't like the film they are discussing run Q&As at NYFF, which is where that conference is occurring. It was on Hoberman's Top 10 runners-up for the year.

September 13, 2009 at 12:37 AM

Blogger Tony Dayoub said...

First of all Adam, I'd appreciate if you refrain from comparing anything I said to Armond White's comments. Though admittedly, I sometimes glean some unique perspectives from White and Pauline Kael (especially in regards to their opinions on De Palma), trying to emulate them by going contrarian just to be provocative is one quality you'd be better served by forgoing.

It is your reckless jump to conclusions (often, I may add), simply to bolster your arguments, that I find objectionable. Regular readers of my blog know my politics run about as left as De Palma's does, so you are wrong (again) in assuming that I don't agree with his points. I simply feel that the way he goes about expressing them in Redacted (and Casualties of War to a lesser degree) hit the nail a little too neatly on the head. And to compare the film to Kubrick's Paths of Glory, a film which is as eloquent in its "preaching" as Redacted is hamfisted, only illustrates what a flimsy argument you have.

As I said before, you are a great writer, but I would rein in the hyperbole ("...In two years, he will be recognized as the filmmaker who ended the war."), and refrain from mischaracterizing any dissenting opinions just to make a point. When you say, "The fact that we are debating right now is proof of his film's power," I think you're missing the point that this argument has been less about the film, than the condescending way you go about debating.

September 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Blogger Todd Ford said...

I just watched this again and the experience only deepend my respect for it. I had a reaction to the opening scenes this time that was much more in line with yours. In fact, more than anything, what puzzles me the most about Redacted criticism is how the performances are described as lacking. I think they are spot on and very engaging and memorable and even moving at times. Now, I may be about to shoot myself in the foot, but I consider the performances to be underated and misunderstood in much the same way the ones in Diary of the Dead are. I consider that film perhaps the only well-acted film in Romero's filmography. And its performances finally gave me real reason to care about the outcome of the zombie/human conflict. I have similarly strong feelings about the characters in Redacted.

September 24, 2009 at 1:59 PM

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