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Blogger Manish said...

It is not possible to recover a nation's soul if 85% of its people are made to feel ashamed of who they are, day in and day out.

Therefore, India's soul will become independent only when it is released from the clutches of gandhian platitudes and nehruvian lies, both of whom conspired to kill the essential Hindu core of India's soul in the name of their perverted version of secularism.

August 15, 2010 at 2:45 AM

Blogger Tony said...

Hi Manish,
I'm not ready yet to evaluate Gandhi and being a westerner, I don't feel specifically an urge to condemn Gandhi's symbolic image. Especially not if this would lead to a possible repression of other religions.
I do know by now however that the Indian image-copying from the west is not only often leading to hilarious scenes in India, but what is worse is that in a time where the west should become very humble about its basic assumptions, this Indian simulating is leading to destruction and more suffering in India itself ... and possibly to a historical loss in worldview for mankind.
Thanks for your reaction.
Tony

August 15, 2010 at 3:03 AM

Blogger Manish said...

Unless you evaluate Gandhi, you can never understand the Indian mind. through our school textbooks and through the con-gress party, he's steeped so deep into the indians' subconsious mind that his woolly ideas continue to kill india bit by bit even 60+ years after his death.

take the independence of india today on 15th august. there is a false perception, very strongly held in india, that gandhi got us our independence. and then the argument is extended to say that if by follwing gandhism, we could defeat the most powerful empire of the world, then gandhism is good for solving any problem anytime anywhere. and thus his woolly ideas get even more firmly implanted in india's mind.

the truth behind india's independence is very different -- http://manish.centreright.in/?p=14

gandhi did have a role to play but only a minor one.

August 15, 2010 at 3:58 AM

Blogger Harsh said...

As an Indian, I also have my views on Mr. Gandhi. I think a false perception cannot be so strong that it will influence millions of people in India and rest of the World. If we say that it is spreaded by one particular political party then we should also think that Gandhi is known figure for South Africa also. Rest of the World also know him because of his work for others.

Gandhi initiated "satyagrah", a fight without any Gun/Sword. It was a non-violence fight with Truth as a tool.

Standing without any arms against enemy for fight needs more courage than fighing with arms.

Gandhi once stated "that where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence"

He taught people how to fight without arms when people were not having arms to fight.

In Martin Luther King Jr words
"Christ gave us the goals and Mahatma Gandhi the tactics".

Nonviolence fight requires incredible faith and courage, which he realised not everyone possessed. He therefore advised that everyone need not keep to nonviolence, especially if it were used as a cover for cowardice.


As per my personal point of view, I would say Gandhi was a legend. He played a major role for our freedom and keeping our culture safe for future generations.

Freedom fighters like "Bhagat Singh" "Chandra Sekar Azad" and "Subhash Chandra Bose" also played equal major role.

I admire all of them from my heart.

Lets make India more better....I LOVE MY INDIA.

August 15, 2010 at 11:34 AM

Blogger Tony said...

Hi Harsh,
Nice to receive your message.
Well, apart from the discussion about Gandhi in India (in which I can have no part yet), I recall my own lessons in Catholic religion, where Gandhi was extensively mentioned as one of the worldclass symbolic historical people available to mankind.
In those times I was really impressed by his teachings and it would be hard to find an equal strong message as Gandhi's attitude in modern day figures. He was very unique as a symbol, no matter if all of it is true or not.
I would make a distinction between:
- the general undiscussible value and unique proposition of Gandhiism to mankind
- the possible damaging effects Gandhiism has on modern day Indian minds (for me this still has to be proven).

I belief that Gandhi's own mindset, however very consistent in itself, perhaps cannot be a meaningful basis to lead a country of so many people, in a world which is so much dominated by the logic of power instead of the logic of love.

For me this is still an open question.

Regarding the 'Catholic goals' you are mentioning. Europe nowadays still is Catholic in essence, but the Catholic institution is becoming rapidly of no-importance anymore, if still something is left of it at all. And I belief we Europeans all enjoy the removal of the institution from our daily lives. Still the basic moral assumptions in our culture are very catholic in nature.

Perhaps Gandhiism is very good, but it could still be that, when applied in reality as a "technique", it is disastruous.
Even if Indian independence could be attributed only to Gandhi (which is not the case), then that would not be a sufficient reason to say that Gandhi developed an efficient technique for surviving in this world as an Indian.

Gandhi as symbolic ideal? I have no problems with this.
Gandhi as ideological framework to execute power politics and change the world? Perhaps this is simply not workable!

However, I do not agree with Manish and I tend to agree with you that Gandhiism alone cannot cause all the desorientation I find in nowadays India.
At least some vulnerability must be in Hinduism itself.

Does this make both unvaluable or untruthfull? Certainly not. In many of my blogs I say that the world should cherish Hinduism. With my very limited knowledge of it, from what I see, it's probably the most truthfull religion on earth.

Tony

August 15, 2010 at 12:23 PM

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