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"Rhodes: The Clinton Era Proposal to Use Military Tribunals on McVeigh and the Militias"

18 Comments -

1 – 18 of 18
Anonymous Crotalus said...

I will consider the use of military justice as a declaration of war against the Citizens of the United States. They have left us no recourse but to fight to the death.

February 6, 2009 at 9:42 AM

Anonymous MPA-III said...

I am left disheartened and speechless over this yet to be updated article, but not demoralized. Indeed, the impetus to train harder has been honed.

February 6, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Scary article. That entire swaths of American citizens (who will likely be - purely coincidentally, of course - opponents of the administration then in power) could be stripped of their rights by the stroke of a pen is abhorent to the concept of "rights" as propounded by the Founding Fathers and as understood by Americans ever since.

Indeed, such a declaration/order by any President WOULD IN FACT be a declaration of war on our Constitution and on the people of this nation.

By the way, John Dean was never AG. He was White House Counsel. With this bit of information regarding his role here, I think that he just got himself on a few lists. However, I think that G. Gordon Liddy has first dibs.

Sorry, gotta go anony mouse on this one.

February 6, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Anonymous MPA-III said...

Ok...now that I've had a moment....this article brings to mind something that we've all heard.

In the case of the federal government and all the supporting alphabet agencies, this article should give pause.

Why? "Be careful of what you wish for....you just may get it!"

Armed Americans being treated as "enemy combatants" with absolutely no rights or considerations under the Constitution of the United States may have the unintended consequence of other Americans witnessing that treatment to begin to act as "enemy combatants".

February 6, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Blogger Stewart Rhodes said...

Crotalus said...

"I will consider the use of military justice as a declaration of war against the Citizens of the United States. They have left us no recourse but to fight to the death."

Yes. If and when this doctrine is actually used as a weapon against us, we will have no other recourse - there will be no justice in the courts, and no time to wait for elections.

That would truly be a point of no return every bit as much as attempted gun confiscation or its evil twin - registration of gun owners via Bobby Rush's HR 45.

What keeps me up at night is knowing that ALL of the mechanisms for such an event have now been put into place.

Now, it is no longer a matter of a legal fight - no longer a matter of constitutional law - or even a matter of passing legislation through Congress - none is needed. Now it is merely a political question of whether "they" think they can get away with it politically, and if they think they can, Obama can "make it so" with the stroke of a pen.

I hope they have the sense to see all of the "unintended consequences" of such an action, but unfortunately, legalistic men such as Crona and Richardson - and other government supremacists such as Holder, Obama, and Hillary - really do not think things through far enough in their bid to play god over the lives and liberty of the American people.

They think in terms only of law and politics, ignoring other dimensions.

Mike V., thank you for posting this, and I certainly will update the article in light of the coming of The One.

Time to remember, and keep, our oaths.

Stewart

III

February 6, 2009 at 12:55 PM

Anonymous Vanderboegh said...

From a law enforcement friend, I have this comment:

Mike, all the government has to do to begin the process to move a hearing (or a finding) toward a military tribunal is to demonstrate an overt, armed action or an attempted action against a 'lawful' governmental function. It's pretty ambiguous, but the process requires little more than getting a federal judge to rule that the "offending" person(s) presented or sought to present an armed action against the United States, fitting the current definition of 'sedition'. Such a ruling allows for the setting aside of Posse Comitatus, giving the Justice Department a door open to call in the military. The units presently designated to respond to such a call are strategically stationed across the country and would be commanded out of Eglin.

February 6, 2009 at 1:02 PM

Anonymous MPA-III said...

MBV's source says: The units presently designated to respond to such a call are strategically stationed across the country and would be commanded out of Eglin.

Eglin....US Special Operations Command. Anyone out there still think AW is the way to train?

Man...this thing is 'danger close'....

February 6, 2009 at 1:27 PM

Anonymous straightarrow said...

Y'all are late to the party.

February 6, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Anonymous grenadier1 said...

I am not sure this is as big a deal as is implied by the article. It matters not what legal fish wrapper they put on it its still going to end up with us and them shooting it out. We should all know in advance that going into this if captured and we are lucky enough to get a trial the whole process will be rigged and we will end up in ditch with a pound of lyme thrown over us. Its the price. You should know it and be ready to pay it if you are serious about standing up. Who gives a rats hinder what "law" they pass or rule they use to justify it. Once the festivities begin they will have gone well past being a legitimate government anyway. This is just more set up to cover themselves and allow themselves to sleep at night just chalk it up as another black mark in the bad column. Once its all settled out in the end we can go back and figure out who needs to have his orafice reemed for coming up with these things.

February 6, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Blogger Dakota said...

It would stand to reason that the members of Guantanamo would be shipped here for trial and given full representation under the Constitution, while citizen patriots are shipped to Guantanamo and denied representation under the Constitution. Perfect!!

I just sat back and reread the paragraph I just wrote .....a huge sigh. Is there anything that should surprise us in this world. I'm speechless!

February 6, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Blogger Travis Lee said...

Don't worry Dakota, only the first couple hundred insurgents will go to Guantanamo.... after that it will be strictly kill-on-sight, or interrogation til expiration.

Even now, most people can't believe this is coming.

February 6, 2009 at 6:54 PM

Anonymous Dr.D said...

What a perfect scenario, commit a thought crime ( holding the wrong beliefs) and be tried as a traitor,
incarcerated for life or just simply disappeared. All perfectly legal, at least on paper.
Crotalus is right.

Dr.D

February 6, 2009 at 10:33 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

+1 grenadier1

check out bethehammer.net from Nine Inch Nails' "Year Zero" alternate reality game:

"Efficiency



war is a business. they know that. you need to.

Hypothetical: you charge the white house. they gun you down. nobody sees. you are out of the game
for the cost of a bullet.

be expensive.

never stop calculating cost and force. when they execute you, twitch when the needle goes in so the
point breaks off and they have to use two. piss in the electric chair so they have to pay 2 more dollars
to clean it up.

you can make a difference. a credit card and a hardware store can make you a hero but you have to
use them efficiently."

February 6, 2009 at 10:44 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eh, if yer gonna go down anyway, go down in flames, dramatically, with the largest possible audience :p

Yeah, I think we're getting to the point where we're going to be criminals one way or another. They'll start locking us up just for having these IP addys show up on our puters. Might as well get ready now.

February 7, 2009 at 4:07 AM

Blogger dadman said...

MPA-III,

you stated:
Anyone out there still think AW is the way to train?

Clarify, please.
AW?
Methods, supply, tactics, strategies.

February 7, 2009 at 9:41 AM

Anonymous Vanderboegh said...

Sorry, dadman, we DO get used to our acronyms.

AW = attrition warfare, i.e., the way World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War I and OIF, in large measure, were fought.

MW = Maneuver warfare, following principles initially laid down by Sun Tzu. Recent advocates include Boyd of "OODA Loop" fame and John Robb over at Global Guerrillas.

MPAIII's comment is directed, I think, at those of the armed citizenry who still have the mindset of "conventional" conflict, ie. large, unwieldy militia units, with "state commanders" and so on.

February 7, 2009 at 9:53 AM

Blogger dadman said...

Thanks for the clarification.

Lighten the load
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2008/12/praxis-lighten-load.html

The grey man
http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2007/05/next-steps-grey-man.html

February 7, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Anonymous straightarrow said...

I would remind everyone that nothing the Nazis did was illegal under German law.

Sort of puts our plight in perspective, doesn't it?

February 7, 2009 at 6:43 PM

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