I find it interesting that, in discussing dependence on "foreign oil" nobody has ever suggested the strategy of using their oil FIRST, and saving ours for later. The sooner we drain the middle east dry of oil, the sooner we can allow them to sink into the 13th century barbarism that seems to be their preferred lifestyle without it inconveniencing us in any way. Maybe put up a fence around the whole mess and let the Israelis take it over when the idiots have managed to kill each-other off through viscousness and incompetence.
May 10, 2015 at 6:31 AM
Anonymous said...
As someone who has spent years working in Iraq, I can tell you that the American public needs to understand that there is a large difference between Kurds and Arabs. The Kurds are a different people than Arabs, we have f**ked them over numerous times costing them thousands of lives and yet they still love Americans. Why? Because they look to America as an example of people fighting for their freedom to establish their own nation. On the ground we work very well with them and they with us. Most Kurds are Sunni, but there are also Shia Kurds, Christian Kurds, and a few other sects. They are all Kurds first.
Contrast this with Arabs, who know loyalty only to their tribe, and that within whether they are Sunni or Shia. They will stab you in the back the first chance they get. Time and again during my time over there I would meet "an Iraqi" and think, "This guy is not so bad, so I can't generalize about Arabs", only to find out that he was in fact a Kurd. See my point?
We should be supporting the Kurds, not the kleptocratic Shia government of Iraq.
Well, there is also the fact that there are a good few non-Muslims in the Kurdish militias. There are in fact both Christian and atheist militias tolerated operating in conjunction with the majority Muslim forces, if not always in close cooperation.
I don't know if it would be useful to consider arming only the non-Muslim Kurdish militias, it seems to me that would only cause a flaring up of religious resentments. But the fact remains that this IS an option as compared to supposedly similar situations elsewhere. Perhaps we shouldn't think of it as arming Muslims so much as arming people who think it is okay for non-Muslims to also be armed alongside them.
Actually, what I wanted to talk about was that tank. There was a pretty deep divide, back when armored units were still in their infancy, about how tanks should be deployed. On the one hand you had what eventually became the armored cavalry concept, organizing entire divisions of tanks and having them maneuver at full speed and through environments effectively interdicted to non-armored units. On the other hand, you had the idea that tanks should be used to bolster infantry formations.
The deciding factor was the trade-off between foregoing maximum exploitation of the physical capabilities of the tank to avoid damage to friendly 'crunchies' and whatever gains in moral an infantry unit could derive from the presence of such a formidable expression of their nation's military capacity and commitment. As tanks became faster, better armored, and more lethal, limiting them to bolstering infantry became a discredited notion.
In this picture, we see the opposite happening. This tank is too old, vulnerable, and probably fuel/ammo-deprived to be as much use operating independently as it is sitting in the middle of a bunch of infantry as a reminder that they can win. In a way, it's a commentary on how much of a difference some well-placed military assistance might make.
On the other, it's also a reminder that the difference might not be to our liking if the assistance isn't so well-placed. I do believe that there is a need for judicious consideration of what is likely to happen as a result of any kind of intervention...and the current national regime shouldn't be trusted to even try to achieve any outcome most American's would accept.
May 10, 2015 at 10:24 AM
HappyClinger said...
I've heard it said that if the Israelis drilled for oil, it would drain all the Saudi fields. That's why they all fight over Israel's territory.
I say to Israel, DRILL, BABY, DRILL.
May 10, 2015 at 10:32 AM
Anonymous said...
Maybe all commenters and emailers should first realize the KURDS ARE NOT MUSLIMS and hate the muzzies far more than we do, for what the muzzies have done to them and their ancestors.
We need proxy warriors in the ME, capable of taking down the rabid muzzies and showing them no mericy in the traditional time-honored ME way of summary executions.
The Kurds and the Persians in Iran have always wanted, ne begged for arms to serve as US proxies in fighting the muzzies, but the Bush Crime Family has shafted each group for its own selfish economic reasons and purposes.
Its time to break their hold and get arms to such valiant(and violent) groups to aggressively defeat the muzzies on their own ground.
Since the kurds have taken in hundreds of thousands of non muslim refugees, mostly yahzeedis and christians, something we under princess Barry have not done, in fact what "refugees" we have taken in have been majority muslim. And the kurds have christians fighting among them, and when captured alive by the forces of isis they have thier heads cut off as infidels no matter thier religion, I'm inclined to give the kurds the "only adults in the room" badge for that region, and give them all the proper tools they need to withstand isis, in fact I put my money where my mouth is and sent a donation to a group that equips and trains christian militias in the region becuase if they are going to die they should have the choice of being on thier feet surrounded by brass, instead of on thier knees having thier heads sawn off. Helped by American volunteers they are trying to keep thier families alive.http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/23/army-of-assyrian-christians-aims-to-fight-islamic-state/23914327/
May 10, 2015 at 11:18 AM
Moe Death said...
Hey, that's a great pun: viscousness!
Sorry, but it was a rough night...
Bill and Domino III
May 10, 2015 at 11:20 AM
Anonymous said...
We armed the "good" Muslims many times. They end up losing to the "bad" Muslims and then our weapons "sent to the good Muslims" end up in the hands of the bad ones anyway. Is nothing learned in Afghanistan and Iraq? Was nothing learned from arming both Iran and Iraq at the same time? Proxy war? Really? First, one must understand that the basic tenet of Islam is - lie to further Islam. The bad ones behead and the moderates just lie...is that it?
Moral people often mistake their own moral character as something they enemies hold also. That skews the board. Even Ghandi knew the difference and how violence plays into it moral versus immoral people. Read that Koran and you find immoral defined.
We should fight our own wars. Stay out of others wars if we can, whooping ass if we must engage.
Oil? Yeah we should drill our own everywhere we can. Like Charlie Daniels wrote - in the White House lawn in necessary. Let the Muslims eat their oil! Oh and LOL @ peak oil. Lol @ use their oil first. Time to embrace the truth - the earth makes oil nonstop. There is no finite gallon amount. True we could use oil at a rate faster than Mother Nature can produce it - but that's not mathematically possible. Why? Cuz God provides resources for us - for ALL mankind!
I understand "allies" as a concept. But it seems many don't understand Taqqyia as a concept. Because of Taqqyia, Muslims -all of them- are UNTRUSTABLE!! Until we learn that lesson, nothing will change.
May 10, 2015 at 12:21 PM
Anonymous said...
And just why does it have to be about killing women and kids for Jesus?
Always with the false premise. Just like "that will never happen". There's the falsest of false premise.
Choice.
Men, mankind, can choose that which is in its own self interest. When enough within a particular nation do so, then it's the nation that does so.
Today, it's our own government, you know...that one that taxes us to give weapons to Muslims that we can't have because that government says we can't, that is also telling us we can't access our own reserves...which forces us to buy the Arab oil. Folks don't want to ADMIT that this amounts to us all being submitted to Sharia. The forced oil purchase amounts to us paying the jizyah. Don't know that jizyah is? It's the dhimmi tax paid by non Muslims to Muslims so they don't attack us and kill us. Pathetic.
Do we required oil? Of course. Are we beholden to Muslims oil because we cannot get it anywhere else? Absolutely NOT! So let's stop the LIES, ok?
Let's start by yelling the truth about despotism. Tyrannical boots on Muslims necks isn't "stability"! U.S. FUNDING of those tyrants -even via "world market" oil purchases only serves ISLAM- as the Osama bin Ladens of the world will first claim we steal it and second claim WE are responsible for all that ills those with boots on their necks. The mullahs and imams then foment this line at Friday prayers (leading to American and Jewish flag burning and death to America chants in the streets. That's not "stability". That's a powder keg waiting for a fuse to light.
I'm sorry for good folk across the world, from supposedly "good" Muslims all the way to impoverished Mexican illegal aliens who just "seek a better life. It's not our fault, my fault, that their countries SUCK! Maybe they outta stand up from within their own country as happened here? Nobody sent soldiers and money and arms for fifty years endlessly "helping" our forefathers. Nobody sent teams of "trainers". Enough finally stood up willing to die rather than bow. Guess what - all Muslims are TAUGHT to bow, and then LIE to get others to bow too. There is no "stability" to be had. This is a war - from them- about world domination of Islam. That's what their book teaches them ALL! That's their goal - that's the Koranic end game.
And some think we should ARM them? Any of them? Really? Might as well put a gun to your own head - the only difference is death will come faster.
Like our founding countrymen - either we FIGHT BACK to win LIBERTY or we bow down and concede for "stability".
I choose to stand. Oh and my name is Mike....I post anonymous most of the time. Mostly I do that to eliminate the "who said" trying to keep debate about that "what was said". Nut shelled... We ought try focussing on our country, our countrymen and our security (from economy to energy). And by security I MEAN our INDEPENDENCE.
May 10, 2015 at 3:16 PM
Anonymous said...
To the anonymous who posted "Maybe all commenters and emailers should first realize the KURDS ARE NOT MUSLIMS"....
You are ignorant. Please don't post this drivel as you don't know what you're talking about. "Kurd" is an ethnicity, not a religion. What you SHOULD have posted was, "Kurds are not Arabs".
As I posted above, Kurds are majority Sunni (MUSLIM), but there are also Shia (MUSLIM) Kurds and Kurds who follow other religions.
The important thing to know here is that they see themselves as Kurds first, much as Americans see each other as Americans rather than Baptists, Roman Catholic or what have you.
I hope that clears this up.
May 10, 2015 at 10:13 PM
Anonymous said...
Poster Mike,
I am the guy who wrote the email. I am well aware what islam is and what it isnt. You do not seem to understand that the west will not be involved in another direct conflict with islam as a whole until the caliphate gets some legs and starts to push into Europe.
We. Will. Not. Fight. Islam. Directly.
We will continue to fight our proxy wars. Frankly, we are broke and our military is tired. Other posters here have also been among the Kurds and have spoken better than I about their character. I know it does not fit into the "all Muzzies are bad muzzies" box, but it is a fact. Despite our many many faliures we have managed to keep both the Turks and the Baathists from annihilating them. Who their enemies are should tell you everything you need to know.
Something to consider.
May 11, 2015 at 2:32 AM
[Image]
Peshmerga with beat-up tank they took from Saddam, now in action against ISIS.
Regarding my link to the Kurds asking for weapons to be provided them directly, an anonymous commenter said:
How many times must we learn this lesson? It's a ongoing hoodwink. We must stop arming ANY Muslim! We must stop teaching them tactics too. To those we seek to aid as mercenaries - food and water only, maybe some medicine. True FRIENDS would appreciate food and water. Over and over we are played - cuz over and over our own weapons go missing. All while we, the AMERICAN people, who Pay For those weapons are barred from having those same weapons ourselves! Time to end the idiocy.
To which a reader responded to me via email, commenting upon the comment:
So long as we are in the business of fighting proxy wars, arming the Kurds is not the same as arming the Taliban in Afghanistan or ISIS in Syria or Al Qaeda in Libya. As DeGaulle noted, nations do not have friends. They have interests. Our interest is in stability as cheaply as possible. If we were really serious about peace in the Middle East, we would divorce ourselves from Muslim or commie produced oil. That just will not happen.
So absent a complete conquest of North Africa and Arabia we need to get comfortable with finding associates who are interested in similar things. When I went into Kurdistan for the first time in March of 2003 to take Mosul, it was remarkable the stark contrast between the Kurds who actually had their collective asses together and their Islamo-socialist neighbors to the south. If you cannot tell the difference with a Kurd who happens to be Muslim and a jihadi Turk or a Salafist Saudi than please refrain from opining on Islamic politics.
I would agree that Islam is a war plan dressed as a religion, however, unless you have a whole lot more people willing to kill women and children for Jesus, we need to fight the battles we can win. Supporting the Jewish State and the true moderate Muslims is a damn good way to get what we want (free market oil), while keeping the bad guys at bay while they continue to devolve into failed nation states.
"A comment upon a comment regarding the Kurds."
12 Comments -
Agreed...mostly.
I would agree with your other correspondent to this extent:
No foreign civilian should be armed, at the expense of the US taxpayer, with weapons prohibited to the US taxpayer.
And foreign militaries can fend for themselves entirely, in terms of weapons.
May 10, 2015 at 6:21 AM
I find it interesting that, in discussing dependence on "foreign oil" nobody has ever suggested the strategy of using their oil FIRST, and saving ours for later. The sooner we drain the middle east dry of oil, the sooner we can allow them to sink into the 13th century barbarism that seems to be their preferred lifestyle without it inconveniencing us in any way. Maybe put up a fence around the whole mess and let the Israelis take it over when the idiots have managed to kill each-other off through viscousness and incompetence.
May 10, 2015 at 6:31 AM
As someone who has spent years working in Iraq, I can tell you that the American public needs to understand that there is a large difference between Kurds and Arabs.
The Kurds are a different people than Arabs, we have f**ked them over numerous times costing them thousands of lives and yet they still love Americans. Why? Because they look to America as an example of people fighting for their freedom to establish their own nation. On the ground we work very well with them and they with us. Most Kurds are Sunni, but there are also Shia Kurds, Christian Kurds, and a few other sects. They are all Kurds first.
Contrast this with Arabs, who know loyalty only to their tribe, and that within whether they are Sunni or Shia. They will stab you in the back the first chance they get. Time and again during my time over there I would meet "an Iraqi" and think, "This guy is not so bad, so I can't generalize about Arabs", only to find out that he was in fact a Kurd. See my point?
We should be supporting the Kurds, not the kleptocratic Shia government of Iraq.
May 10, 2015 at 9:34 AM
Well, there is also the fact that there are a good few non-Muslims in the Kurdish militias. There are in fact both Christian and atheist militias tolerated operating in conjunction with the majority Muslim forces, if not always in close cooperation.
I don't know if it would be useful to consider arming only the non-Muslim Kurdish militias, it seems to me that would only cause a flaring up of religious resentments. But the fact remains that this IS an option as compared to supposedly similar situations elsewhere. Perhaps we shouldn't think of it as arming Muslims so much as arming people who think it is okay for non-Muslims to also be armed alongside them.
Actually, what I wanted to talk about was that tank. There was a pretty deep divide, back when armored units were still in their infancy, about how tanks should be deployed. On the one hand you had what eventually became the armored cavalry concept, organizing entire divisions of tanks and having them maneuver at full speed and through environments effectively interdicted to non-armored units. On the other hand, you had the idea that tanks should be used to bolster infantry formations.
The deciding factor was the trade-off between foregoing maximum exploitation of the physical capabilities of the tank to avoid damage to friendly 'crunchies' and whatever gains in moral an infantry unit could derive from the presence of such a formidable expression of their nation's military capacity and commitment. As tanks became faster, better armored, and more lethal, limiting them to bolstering infantry became a discredited notion.
In this picture, we see the opposite happening. This tank is too old, vulnerable, and probably fuel/ammo-deprived to be as much use operating independently as it is sitting in the middle of a bunch of infantry as a reminder that they can win. In a way, it's a commentary on how much of a difference some well-placed military assistance might make.
On the other, it's also a reminder that the difference might not be to our liking if the assistance isn't so well-placed. I do believe that there is a need for judicious consideration of what is likely to happen as a result of any kind of intervention...and the current national regime shouldn't be trusted to even try to achieve any outcome most American's would accept.
May 10, 2015 at 10:24 AM
I've heard it said that if the Israelis drilled for oil, it would drain all the Saudi fields. That's why they all fight over Israel's territory.
I say to Israel, DRILL, BABY, DRILL.
May 10, 2015 at 10:32 AM
Maybe all commenters and emailers should first realize the KURDS ARE NOT MUSLIMS and hate the muzzies far more than we do, for what the muzzies have done to them and their ancestors.
We need proxy warriors in the ME, capable of taking down the rabid muzzies and showing them no mericy in the traditional time-honored ME way of summary executions.
The Kurds and the Persians in Iran have always wanted, ne begged for arms to serve as US proxies in fighting the muzzies, but the Bush Crime Family has shafted each group for its own selfish economic reasons and purposes.
Its time to break their hold and get arms to such valiant(and violent) groups to aggressively defeat the muzzies on their own ground.
May 10, 2015 at 11:14 AM
Since the kurds have taken in hundreds of thousands of non muslim refugees, mostly yahzeedis and christians, something we under princess Barry have not done, in fact what "refugees" we have taken in have been majority muslim. And the kurds have christians fighting among them, and when captured alive by the forces of isis they have thier heads cut off as infidels no matter thier religion, I'm inclined to give the kurds the "only adults in the room" badge for that region, and give them all the proper tools they need to withstand isis, in fact I put my money where my mouth is and sent a donation to a group that equips and trains christian militias in the region becuase if they are going to die they should have the choice of being on thier feet surrounded by brass, instead of on thier knees having thier heads sawn off. Helped by American volunteers they are trying to keep thier families alive.http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/23/army-of-assyrian-christians-aims-to-fight-islamic-state/23914327/
May 10, 2015 at 11:18 AM
Hey, that's a great pun: viscousness!
Sorry, but it was a rough night...
Bill and Domino
III
May 10, 2015 at 11:20 AM
We armed the "good" Muslims many times. They end up losing to the "bad" Muslims and then our weapons "sent to the good Muslims" end up in the hands of the bad ones anyway. Is nothing learned in Afghanistan and Iraq? Was nothing learned from arming both Iran and Iraq at the same time? Proxy war? Really? First, one must understand that the basic tenet of Islam is - lie to further Islam. The bad ones behead and the moderates just lie...is that it?
Moral people often mistake their own moral character as something they enemies hold also. That skews the board. Even Ghandi knew the difference and how violence plays into it moral versus immoral people.
Read that Koran and you find immoral defined.
We should fight our own wars. Stay out of others wars if we can, whooping ass if we must engage.
Oil? Yeah we should drill our own everywhere we can. Like Charlie Daniels wrote - in the White House lawn in necessary. Let the Muslims eat their oil! Oh and LOL @ peak oil. Lol @ use their oil first. Time to embrace the truth - the earth makes oil nonstop. There is no finite gallon amount. True we could use oil at a rate faster than Mother Nature can produce it - but that's not mathematically possible. Why? Cuz God provides resources for us - for ALL mankind!
I understand "allies" as a concept. But it seems many don't understand Taqqyia as a concept. Because of Taqqyia, Muslims -all of them- are UNTRUSTABLE!! Until we learn that lesson, nothing will change.
May 10, 2015 at 12:21 PM
And just why does it have to be about killing women and kids for Jesus?
Always with the false premise. Just like "that will never happen". There's the falsest of false premise.
Choice.
Men, mankind, can choose that which is in its own self interest. When enough within a particular nation do so, then it's the nation that does so.
Today, it's our own government, you know...that one that taxes us to give weapons to Muslims that we can't have because that government says we can't, that is also telling us we can't access our own reserves...which forces us to buy the Arab oil. Folks don't want to ADMIT that this amounts to us all being submitted to Sharia. The forced oil purchase amounts to us paying the jizyah. Don't know that jizyah is? It's the dhimmi tax paid by non Muslims to Muslims so they don't attack us and kill us. Pathetic.
Do we required oil? Of course. Are we beholden to Muslims oil because we cannot get it anywhere else? Absolutely NOT! So let's stop the LIES, ok?
Let's start by yelling the truth about despotism. Tyrannical boots on Muslims necks isn't "stability"! U.S. FUNDING of those tyrants -even via "world market" oil purchases only serves ISLAM- as the Osama bin Ladens of the world will first claim we steal it and second claim WE are responsible for all that ills those with boots on their necks. The mullahs and imams then foment this line at Friday prayers (leading to American and Jewish flag burning and death to America chants in the streets. That's not "stability". That's a powder keg waiting for a fuse to light.
I'm sorry for good folk across the world, from supposedly "good" Muslims all the way to impoverished Mexican illegal aliens who just "seek a better life. It's not our fault, my fault, that their countries SUCK!
Maybe they outta stand up from within their own country as happened here? Nobody sent soldiers and money and arms for fifty years endlessly "helping" our forefathers. Nobody sent teams of "trainers". Enough finally stood up willing to die rather than bow. Guess what - all Muslims are TAUGHT to bow, and then LIE to get others to bow too. There is no "stability" to be had. This is a war - from them- about world domination of Islam. That's what their book teaches them ALL! That's their goal - that's the Koranic end game.
And some think we should ARM them? Any of them? Really? Might as well put a gun to your own head - the only difference is death will come faster.
Like our founding countrymen - either we FIGHT BACK to win LIBERTY or we bow down and concede for "stability".
I choose to stand. Oh and my name is Mike....I post anonymous most of the time. Mostly I do that to eliminate the "who said" trying to keep debate about that "what was said". Nut shelled... We ought try focussing on our country, our countrymen and our security (from economy to energy). And by security I MEAN our INDEPENDENCE.
May 10, 2015 at 3:16 PM
To the anonymous who posted "Maybe all commenters and emailers should first realize the KURDS ARE NOT MUSLIMS"....
You are ignorant. Please don't post this drivel as you don't know what you're talking about. "Kurd" is an ethnicity, not a religion. What you SHOULD have posted was, "Kurds are not Arabs".
As I posted above, Kurds are majority Sunni (MUSLIM), but there are also Shia (MUSLIM) Kurds and Kurds who follow other religions.
The important thing to know here is that they see themselves as Kurds first, much as Americans see each other as Americans rather than Baptists, Roman Catholic or what have you.
I hope that clears this up.
May 10, 2015 at 10:13 PM
Poster Mike,
I am the guy who wrote the email. I am well aware what islam is and what it isnt. You do not seem to understand that the west will not be involved in another direct conflict with islam as a whole until the caliphate gets some legs and starts to push into Europe.
We. Will. Not. Fight. Islam. Directly.
We will continue to fight our proxy wars. Frankly, we are broke and our military is tired. Other posters here have also been among the Kurds and have spoken better than I about their character. I know it does not fit into the "all Muzzies are bad muzzies" box, but it is a fact. Despite our many many faliures we have managed to keep both the Turks and the Baathists from annihilating them. Who their enemies are should tell you everything you need to know.
Something to consider.
May 11, 2015 at 2:32 AM