I have posted similar info and stories to local gun pages to attempt to inform the fudds and bubbas about the man. 3 days later, they were gone. Admin and mods don't know how it happened. Gone.
A critical thinker would start connecting the dots rather quickly and deduce that he's the biggest fish they've landed in years.
January 8, 2016 at 12:45 PM
Anonymous said...
Good post Mike. No doubt this Payne pain, is indeed a fed infiltrator agent provocateur. Hopefully those with him right now that are with him wake up and smell the coffee.
"The China Narrative That Really Matters" by Ben Hunt makes some important observations but places them in a fundamentally mistaken context. Ben asserts, "there's one aspect of the China story that can't heal itself or transform into something more benign from a market perspective, and that's the Narrative of Chinese Government Competence." This is a quarter-truth because the narrative won't transform into something more benign from a market perspective, but that's because the CCP doesn't want such a benign outcome. And, viewed for what it really is, the narrative is already healing itself.
Hunt repeats the common mistake that the "Narrative of Chinese Government Competence" has to do with economic management. This is profoundly mistaken, it ignores virtually everything about the CCP and its actual objectives and methods. The competence the CCP depends on for their legitimacy has always been and remains defense of "China" against foreign threats, both military and cultural. The Nationalists were the proxies for the Western foreign cultural threat, the Japanese were the foreign military threat. Remarkably little has changed in the intervening decades except that Japan became a significant ally of the West. The economic warfare against the West was never primarily understood as a way to make life better for the Chinese people, but as a way to bolster their defense against Western econo-cultural "Imperialism" or whatever. The CCP has consistently downplayed China's economic strength and focused on the narrative of being under constant economic attack.
As long as the CCP continues to blame the West (and 'capitalist collaborators'), a full-scale economic collapse actually strengthens this narrative as well as consolidating their hold on power.
So why is this relevant to the notion of planning our own struggle against tyranny? Because it makes planning based on the idea that the global economy isn't going to implode downright foolish. The Feds literally cannot afford the economic impact of another Waco. The failure to resolve this peacefully will impact the market value of the U.S. dollar by destroying the narrative that the U.S. government is competent. I'm not claiming that the Obama regime is actually competent enough to understand this, I'm sure they're looking for ways to recreate Waco here, as evidenced by recent developments. But they do not have the capital.
Force the militia into hiding and round up any that stand out as domestic terrorists? I'm sure they'd love to do just that, but they will lose the means to do so if they shock the market by killing a bunch of peaceful protesters for no reason at all. Right now the cleverly disengaged (exactly the kind of people still in the markets) see this as an amusingly irrelevant side-show, but will they still feel that way after it's turned into a smoldering pile of dead?
The markets will answer that question, and the answer will be "we no longer trust the government to make good on those dollars they're 'quantitatively easing'."
Like I'm saying, I don't trust Obama to realize that. But in thinking about the contingencies for how to deal with a slaughter in Oregon, we can't afford to follow people who don't understand the real nature and scope of the conflict. I'm sure this guy is a fine unit commander, but he has inadequate grasp of the larger strategic picture here.
And even if he didn't, I never follow defeatists. We fight to win, or we don't bother.
January 8, 2016 at 2:05 PM
Anonymous said...
I read this either early this morning or yesterday,I forget.But I have to hand it to you Dutchman, as you had this guy Payne's number long ago. And even I, an aging 58 (almost 59)year old female who has no military or LEO experience was listening intently all along as you were talking about this guy being a provocateur. It makes sense and it fits the elite puppet-master's M.O. They've been playing this game for so long I really don't know how anyone falls for it anymore, but they obviously do. question: "How do you spot the Fed. in your group?" answer: "It's the guy always talking about bombing shit!" Why the Bundy's would go along with him is beyond me. Unless, they have some crazy idea that they are going to outwit the counter-intelligence guy by using him to their advantage. Which would, of course, be impossible to do because now you're playing on their chessboard. So why then would he (Bundy) go along? Could he be this ignorant of the games the Feds. play? In this day and age of information at our fingertips I find that impossible. I just pray he doesn't get taken to the proverbial woodshed over this entire fiasco...BTW: your thoughts on the "whys" of the Feds. touching this off would be interesting Dutchman; aside from the obvious painting of militia and gun-toting white, rural folks as lunatics, of course.
January 8, 2016 at 3:17 PM
Anonymous said...
He's right about this and how it's going and why it's a bad idea. He is wrong if he thinks the FBI killing women and children is going to scare patriots. It's going to piss them off and start a war. Not good, I know, but true nonetheless. This guy is smart but he's also a coward. He's admitted as much.
January 8, 2016 at 5:52 PM
Anonymous said...
Excellent read, thank you.
But with respect, it does have one gross, glaring error: "Sorry kids... the ONLY people who can stop the BLM are in DC.. "
Patently false, and harmfully so. The municipality, the Sheriff, the Governor can permanently boot the BLM out of that area with two words: "Get Out."
The BLM has no constitutional authority to exist; the Fed has no constitutional authority to manage that tract of land, and the Supreme Court has no standing to even have an opinion on the topic. Land ownership within State Boundaries is reserved to the States. Any land the Fed does hold can be for "forts and ports", but it loses those if the State boots them out. And that's it. No aspect of The Fed gets to decide what the limits of the Fed's powers are.
Anything other than throwing them out, in regard to "fixing" the BLM, is a distraction - it's akin to a 5-year-old child unilaterally claiming that it gets to decide how many cookies it gets to eat, and the parent trying to convince the child to give up that authority. The entire premise is Utter Fallacy. States don't sue the Fed. States dictate. Fed can sue States, in State courts, but on this topic, they'll have no standing to do so.
You do not "sue" for it. You do not "petition".
You make your local Sheriff and municipality understand the Rule Of Law; you get the Sheriff to comprehend that the Powers that are delegated to the Fed are limited and strictly defined, and this BLM trash aint one of 'em. You help the Sheriff realize that these Feds, running around under the mere Color of Law, aren't actually Feds - they are an unlawful, faux organization, and are exactly non-government citizens acting criminally. And you help him realize that he can order them to cease and desist, or he can arrest them. THIS is "nullification".
And then you help protect him.
If anyone is going to bring a suit, you would sue to compel the State to boot the Feds off its land, and have any State Actors who work to oppose the suit arrested for Criminal Facilitation. But that's really the extent of how the courts would be used in such circumstance.
The States are not subordinate to the Fed. The States are nations, just like Britain, Russia, and Iran. The Fed is nothing more than a co-op. Co-ops don't dictate. Co-ops are subordinate. It's time that we remember that.
Cheers,
January 8, 2016 at 6:24 PM
Anonymous said...
I asked a good friend about this article. This was his reply
Tom, this guy is a complete liar. Especially if he really was at the Ranch, which I doubt. Buddha is legit. ___ and ___ have known him for years. I met him the day he arrived at the ranch. He was a calm, cool, avowed atheist who distrusted everyone and let it be known that if anyone fired a shot without being fired on first, the second shot would be his hitting them in the back of the head. There was ZERO encouragement of any sort to engage or do anything at all that might even appear as provocative. I have had contact with Buddha continually since then. His whole life has changed as his time there with the Bundys caused him to become a believer and get baptized. The change of humility that came over him in a years time is absolutely phenomenal. And HE and Ammon ran the show. This Ryan Payne and the other one followed their instruction and neither of them ever even remotely raised their head to even suggest defying Buddha or Ammon. Ammon is focused and committed. You can bet any moves made up there were his alone. He is not of the personality type to be led. Another reason I am not sure the writer of this article ever really had anything to do with the Ranch is because the way he describes Ammon is exactly the way he presents himself on tv and to the groups he speaks to. This is the way anyone who doesn't really know him would surmise is going down. But in reality Ammon is a strong leader and very spiritual like his father. Neither of them could ever be manipulated by someone like the way he describes Payne and Buddha as doing. He also names Santilli. I am starting to believe he is also getting a bad rap. This guy, the oath breakers and your vandebough guy are all spouting the same mantra. Why is that? Why do they hate Payne who really had a minimal role at the ranch? It is starting to look like these three groups were given marching orders to take the most committed Patriots and turn people against him. Now I don't care for Santilli, but nothing he has done rises to the level of suspicion these guys are trying to lay on him. It seems they are trying to marginalized him so no one will listen to him. Anyway, having been there with all the parties involved I can tell you the writer of this story smacks of someone who wasn't really there on the inside (in the house where decisions were made) or wasn't even there at all.
Do ya think Ryan and his two pals realize that immediately after the flash bangs go pop, they will be SWATed too? The feds certainly wouldn't leave a paid snitch / puppet provocateur in any condition to possibly / probably tell tales.
Am I over thinking this?
MikeH. A Geriatric Threeper With An Inquiring Mind
January 8, 2016 at 7:24 PM
Anonymous said...
Actually the Marine Corps verified that Booda was never enlisted. So no, he's not legit.
Secondly, a two second Google or Facebook search pulls up a host of photos showing Yingling not only at the ranch as claimed, but serving in the exact position he claims that he was in.
What does he gain by lying? He's across the country. He's not going, he's not getting anything from it. I think his statement rings far truer than most of the crap I've seen from the guys involved.
January 8, 2016 at 8:59 PM
Anonymous said...
Ianoymoy at 6:24
Bravo! Absolutely correct. Thank you!
January 8, 2016 at 9:37 PM
Anonymous said...
Obama wants the set up and he wants people to stand down. He wants his BLM win. I think Mike is right about the dangers and has the actors called properly. I disagree though that Obama will risk "civilian" casualties. Going in with guns blazing here like Waco would open him up FAR to much to ROE here being fatefully disregarding when ROE are so strict abroad.
Obama's only choice here is wait. And he knows it. The bait here is to get the militias boogeymanned again. Make Militias look scary and like the bad guys.
Mike, the answer to BLM rests in electing a President who will not form a BLM as part of his cabinet. That is the only way to end it, so on that point I agree you are correct about the DC scenario.
But I have to say, it is fast becoming a point of contention - serious one at that. If not here, where? If not now, when? If not this way, how? If not this reason, why?
Waco 2 already played out in government assassinating people. It went full fledged hide all the evidence too. There was no call to action about mass arrests. Uniform charging and bond and even information denials - political prisoner taking at its finest, and no call to action. The most basic information is hidden to this day. No call to action. I guess eeeevvviiilll motorcycle "gangs" aren't worth it either.
Well, what will be? Every time another encroachment takes place, we are told all the reasons not to defend against it. Every. Time.
I realize this is a messy situation, and for a whole hosts of reasons. Point taken and even when absolutely conceded.....what IS worth stepping up for? Not even ACTUAL Waco 2 was worth it!
Kinda starting to sound like the NRA line we have been dealt for decades. We have to wait for the perfect test case, with the perfect set of circumstances, in the perfect place, at the perfect time and until then we just have to wait. And take it.
It occurs to me that maybe some of the stores being defended at Lexington and Concord may have been held by less than perfect people, maybe even with less that perfect desires, but that so many others were going to harmed by the confiscation that the less than perfect circumstances were just accepted as part of the normal course of things. Nothing is ever perfect, and there comes a point where the fight the gubmint keeps instigating just has to happen, because there is NO avoiding it.
Why is their no avoiding it? Because government will just keep right on advancing, relentlessly, making sure have every grab, ever step forward Juuussssst "messy" enough to make sure it still isn't the "right" time place and manner.
And yes I went there on purpose.
This is happening with or without the militia "leadership". Now. People are dying every day, all over this country, because of the incremental oversteps already taken. SO the claim that loss of life is the decider is disingenuous at best.
The time to stand up and fight back is now. If that out there is what has to light it of, so be it. If you want it to be different, then pick the place and pick the reason. Interestingly, all those against this up there have yet to qualify their opposition with alternative. Lots of reasons why NOT here, why NOT this, but no alternatives on those fronts. Funny that. There never is.
January 8, 2016 at 9:50 PM
Anonymous said...
Sounds like a bunch of Bozo's to me. The whole world is laughing at them.
January 9, 2016 at 2:42 PM
TheBohunk said...
Heckuva lot of emotional defeatist talk in this piece as well as the comments here. I'd refute some if it but Maz Velocity did it best http://www.maxvelocitytactical.com/2016/01/the-fear-and-the-paranoia/
His take on it was linked up at Western Rifle Shooters, that's how I found it. There is a commenter up there who sure sounds like somebody who was on the ground at the Bundy Ranch who had this to say:
"There is not one sound byte of evidence presented that he in fact claimed to be a Ranger. It was actually stated by a man named Mike (forget his last name) who headed an organization called Citizen’s Action Network (CAN), and which was not refuted, in a timely manner by Ryan Payne, as it should have been. Bad decision on his part to let that go viral, without a timely refutation. The damage has been done."
I sometimes don't know who the heck to believe anymore. But I don't think it helps us to badmouth the guys up there in Burns since they seem to have made it absolutely clear they want a peaceful protest and are only armed for defense. They haven't harmed anyone or anything so I would tend to think that their actions represent that.
Another thing....if Payne were a fed....why are we a week into this without any provacation? Like I said....their thus far peaceful actions speak volumes.
I don't doubt that there are Fed assets involved in the Bundys. It would be supremely improbable for them not to at least infiltrate informers into such a prominent group, and given how the Feds operate it is a given that some of the informers are going to be provocateurs.
I have no opinion on who exactly is and isn't a Fed asset, it's even possible that one or more of the Bundys themselves have been compromised. We need to just accept that any group which doesn't operate completely in secret with no public presence is going to have informants in it and it isn't worth rooting them out, cause they'll just be replaced either when your group expands or by carefully applied pressure on existing group members.
If you really want a covert group, you break it up into cells and do a loyalty test. Killing a dirty cop is a good one, better if you stage a suicide because that requires multiple initiates (harder to pull off, easier to get away with). If you're not in a group like that (and if you are, don't admit it here for crying out loud), then don't bother about whether anyone is talking to the Feds, just assume that everyone might be and deal with it.
January 10, 2016 at 10:23 PM
Anonymous said...
COINTELPRO activity didn’t stop during the 60s dealing with the civil rights groups. THEY will obviously employ the same thing against what is seen as white militias that stand in their way. Payne and Cooper were nobodies prior to being chased off the Bundy ranch groups...why do you think they are back and acting like complete a $$holes again? Cui bono? Ask yourself, why is Oath Keepers keeping their distance so publicly? What do they KNOW but aren’t saying? Also what is the MI mission? Infiltrate and disrupt. What doesn’t make sense about this op in Oregon? It makes no sense and their stated end state goal makes no sense either, but militia went along with it following dubious leaders, and i think Ammon Bundy bought into it. He is either coopted by the Feds or he is duped. The e entire op lacks at coherent strategy, coherent goals and lacks taxtical leadership. NOBODY GOES AND DEFENDS LAND OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE IN WINTER TO quote" Take it back."..that so foolish it is obvious stupidity. What kind of strategist and tactician is that phucking stupid, REALLY? Doesn’t anyone see the obvious similarity between Payne and Cooper and the two meth headcrazies that shot up the Walmart in SLC and left behind a manifesto pointing directly at White Christian militias. The suspects both died and took to the grave their actual secrets about who was directing them. WHY DO PEOPLE NOT SEE THE OBVIOUS USE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT DEEP SNITCHES BEING USED? Those two in SLC were police Snitches, do you think they actually would have done that crap on their own as amateurish as it was? The cop they killed was unplanned collateral damage! Cooper and Payne are COINTELPRO...THEY HAVE NO BACKGROUNDS IF YOU GO LOOKING..What you can find is dodgy and sparse but not detailed. For those of you who can see the obvious (those with any kind of intelligence background), this whole thing has allowed the govt to mark specific threats they will feel to their power by capturing all available intel on militia members not just through their cell phones and the backdoors the NSA exploits through them, but also through Stingray employment, video captured by and during media interviews, embedded intelligence personnel in the media crews to collect intel in person, DRONE TECHNOLOGY. They will exploit every single lead they get. You know also they WANT the militia to show up then go home. The militia members will be like bees carrying the pesticides backed to the nest, they will be tagged and monitored when they get home for all their at home with their ocal contacts. For shame you don’t have any good strategic advisors who will tell you these things... HOW DO YOU SUPPOSE THEY TRACK GANG MEMEBRS AND RIVAL DRUG CARTEL MEMBERS? Why do you think the use of the Stingray technology is still so widely covered up? They dont need to place a GPS tracker anymore on your vehicle. You CHOOSE TO CARRY IT ALREADY, NO WARRANT NEEDED! Freaking use your heads people, you are giving them everything they need to wage a successful Jade Helm op on you...What do you think JADE HELM was about? Infiltrating and locating opposition figures IN THE USA.. Were SOCOM troops NOT exercising infiltrating AMERICAN towns..Did you not learn anything? The hype was to distract you so you didnt figure out that the place their tactics were going to be used was here (train as you fight in the environment you will fight in as closes as you can). The bundy ranch was a test to see what militias would do, This is a BETA TEST to PROOF their intelligence gathering in America on militia members on all they have learned and multi agency cooperation of intelligence gather techniques and tactics which is WHAT JADE HELM WAS REALLY ALL ABOUT. You aren’t seeing the LONGER TERM GOALS of the feds..you are looking at the here and now, not the bigger picture of building the intelligence on the WHOLE militia playing field. The Oregon op is small potatoes, but you don’t kill ants by stomping on them, you make them carry the poison home and kill the whole colony.
Sign Me, Neal Jensen
January 11, 2016 at 7:47 AM
[Image]
Ryan Payne, certified sociopath and probable agent provocateur.Per Yingling's Facebook page.
OK ... Everybody... please gather around and listen to what I am about to say.. Then either shut your mouth, or share this far and wide. If you have ANY faith in me as a leader you will heed what I am about to say. If not..I want nothing to do with you. simple as that.
The key to victory in any battle is the ability to remain calm in any given situation. What we are seeing right now is a whole bunch of people acting based solely on raw emotion. This is very bad and I'm about to explain exactly why. I am not letting my emotions make my decisions for me, but instead, looking at this from a calm, level headed, common sense approach.
What you are all witnessing right now right now in Oregon has the makings of a full on false flag event. And I will prove that to you to the absolute best of my ability. Should you choose to look at this from a logical perspective you will see I am 100% correct. Some of what I will tell you is speculation based on my own experience and experiences of others I have talked to throughout this ordeal, but most of what I am going to tell you is documented verifiable fact.
Back during the Bundy situation, Ryan Payne declared himself the unofficial "leader" of the militias present at the Bundy ranch. Nothing could have been further from the truth. In fact, none of the militias listened to him at all. The ONLY ones who listened to him were the Bundy's, Blaine Cooper, who Payne claimed was a "professional security consultant', who turned out to be nothing more than an ex con, and buddah bear (nice name) who he also claimed was a "professional security consultant", but was later discovered to be nothing more than a tattoo artist thug. The militias ignoring these three, is precisely why that situation didn't turn into a blood bath. (Strangely enough all three are present at the refuge.)
I and Scott Woods were asked on one occasion, by Payne to go and destroy BLM equipment in the middle of the night. We refused, stating that that's not why we were there. We were there solely to defend the family. That very same night he rushed off in a car with a loaded AR to START a violent altercation with LEOs who supposedly had pulled over members of the Armenian Militia off exit 10 near the ranch. This report was never vetted nor was it looked into before he rushed off. It is also well documented that Payne had tried to incite other militia members to start violent altercations with the authorities who were present there. all of which were refused by militia members..all for the same reason...we were NOT there to start a fight...but to DEFEND the family. When people refused, Payne, Cooper, and Buddah ostracized them and ran them off the ranch. This is why most militias left the ranch when they did. One other point worth mentioning was there were militia members present with long range 50 cal sniper rifles... but instead of positioning them on the hilltops surrounding the ranch, Payne had them stationed down in a valley where they were effectively useless...does that sound like the makings of a solid leader to you? And also Payne was always sure to make certain that there was ONE completely UNDEFENDED access point to the ranch.. I brought this up to him asking why he would leave our back door completely open and undefended... and he completely blew me off... What he was doing in fact, was leaving an access point open for authorities to bum rush the ranch if that's what they felt needed to be done. And I have the witnesses to prove it.
Now throughout the situation Payne made repeated threats to law enforcement on NATIONAL media. There's VIDEO of him doing this..its not hard to find. Yet oddly enough with all that evidence he was never charged with anything during or after the standoff. Does that seem ODD to anyone but me? (not if you're a paid provocateur) Now in this situation at the refuge, he has publicly stated to a reporter that he has snipers set up to kill any federal official who approaches the refuge. Yet still.. no charges are being filed against him. making threats like that, you'd think they'd swoop in and scoop him up... but noooo.. because they're giving patriots time to get there... Don't think for one second that with a couple of phone calls to the proper alphabet agencies, those shmucks wont be SORELY outnumbered. Tell you what... if you think LEO's don't take threats against them seriously... go find the nearest cop and walk up to him and tell him you plan to kill police officers and see what happens to you.. See how long it takes for you to end up in prison.. yet Payne roams free..as does Cooper. Better yet go ask Schuyler Barbeau what happens when you threaten a public official... oh wait...you can't... he's in prison... because of a Facebook post. Funny how that works huh? Also... has anyone else noticed that until this situation popped up Payne was damned near SILENT on social media? Wonder why that is... Hell, Most of you don't even know who he is... He also claimed to be an Army Ranger, But when we had someone at the Ranger School check their records... they said NO Ryan Payne had EVER attended that school... who-da thunk it?
Myself and Scott begged the Bundys, after we left (via phone) to stop listening to Payne..that he was a plant. But they refused to listen. Payne wouldn't let ANYONE talk to the Bundy's with out him being present..or close by. The Bundy's are good God fearing Christians but they are TERRIBLY naive. They truly believe Payne is one of the good guys. Which is why they are at the refuge now. Do you honestly think for one second it was AMMON's idea to take that building? If you do... you're a fool. They're not that type of people. Ammon has been suckered into this standoff by Payne and Cooper. He truly went up there with the intention of helping the Hammonds, and when they were refused, The Bundy's were made to believe that taking a stand against the BLM was the answer.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Now Cliven is on his way there.. and the govt is finally going to get their revenge on the Bundy's and in doing so gain the access they need to their land. All the major players in the operation of that Ranch will soon be together at the wildlife refuge... that's no coincidence. I assure you. Payne, Cooper, Pete Santili... All well trained provocateurs who are doing everything in their power to lure patriots to the ranch.. Case in point...Santili just released a video try to say that the FBI was TRYING to shut him down.. Dont you think if that were the case...with ALL of the resources the FBI has, they would just go ahead and do it...do you really think this shmuck is smart enough to outsmart the ENTIRE FBI? Think about it...
Let us continue on.. why the wild life refuge? how in the blue hell did they even know it existed if this wasn't PRE-PLANNED? And why were their trailers staged up there THURSDAY night if this was all "unplanned"? And if they wanted support so bad...why not let the Oregon 3%ers and militia in on this? I'll tell you why.. because they would have had no part in it and vehemently refused if they had known.... as was demonstrated by their response once they found out. SO..that being said.. why pick a place so remote.. I'll tell you why.. the same reason the Bundy ranch was picked.. it's remote... no civilian casualties. And if everyone out there is killed there's no witnesses allowing the govt to write the narrative of what happened afterwards..You can bet any reporters out there will be silenced should they actually get close enough to catch anything worth documenting unless of course they're willing to report what they're told to... the reason it failed at the Bundy ranch was because the community got so involved... NOT the case at the refuge.
Next.. why has a detachment of Delta Force been deployed to the area? (does anyone remember that Delta was ALSO at WACO?) 19 sets of orders were cut for operators to be at Waco. Why in the Blue hell would they send Delta to squash a bunch of unorganized mostly unarmed protesters? I'll tell you why.. one of the things Delta specializes in is hostage rescue.. I.E. blow open a door rush in and shoot the bad guys but save the good guys.. I.E. embedded reporters from the national media who can later report the protesters fired first.
This is happening EXACTLY the same way WACO did... you know who else claimed, "We won't fire first but if attacked we'll fire back.."? David Koresh. Again well documented fact. This situation is going to turn out the exact same way. If these guys don't stand down now, while the sheriff is giving them an opportunity to, I promise you.. its going to turn out the exact same way. I'll bet my life on it.
Now let's look at poor John Ritzheimer. This guy is exhibiting all the classic signs of PTSD. It is my belief that he is not in on this plan but like the Bundy's... has been suckered into believing what he is doing is right. This poor bastard is still fighting the war in his head and Assholes like Payne and Cooper are feeding into his delusions that dying for this cause is what he needs to do. They are taking advantage of his big heart and his undying love for the country he fought for and twisting him into a suicidal maniac. Im sorry if that stings.. but I assure you its the cold hard truth. How could ANYONE in their right mind think that dying trying to fight the BLM of all things is going to "change the govt"? How ignorant do you have to be to think that fighting and dying out there is going to somehow make the BLM fold up shop and stop what they are doing.
Sorry kids... the ONLY people who can stop the BLM are in DC.. and I assure you, as long as People like Harry Reid and the like are around... the BLM is not going anywhere.. no matter how much we fight them and run them off. We ran them off at the Bundy ranch...and how much did that slow them down..? we ran them off at the sugar pine mine... how much did that slow them down...? What makes anyone think this will be any different? Mind boggling I tell you.
Now to those of you who are buying into this whole "this will galvanize the movement line of crap".. What this is REALLY going to do is crush the patriot movement. They are going to hit these people with such force with such blinding speed and a level of violence of action that most patriots are going to turn and look at their own children and go there's no way in HELL I want that to happen to MY family... thus the reason there are women and Children being taken to the refuge. The govt has already shown at WACO and Ruby Ridge just how willing they are to kill American Children. Don't think for a second they wont do it here as well. All the classic signs of a psyop. They plan to frighten the people into not even daring to ever take a stand against them again.
So what then of the militias? We'll still be here but will be forced into hiding.. those who aren't will be scooped up and charged as Domestic Terrorists. Do you for even ONE second really believe that this happening at the same time as Obama prepares to announce a whole new slew of gun restrictions is really a coincidence? Its not.. Not at all. What this is going to be used for is an EXCUSE to show why we need to disarm the American people for their own safety.. or put into place such SEVERE restrictions on owning firearms that we will NEVER be able to properly defend ourselves against a tyrannical govt. Hitler did it... Stalin did it... Mao did it... now Obama's doing it. History is repeating itself in front of our own eyes and we're too blinded by raw emotion to recognize it.
If everyone picked up and left that refuge tomorrow, what do you think Payne and Cooper would do? They're so die hard...think they'd stay and fight? I mean that's what they're saying... they're not leaving right? Prepared to die for the cause....right?.... My ASS ! Nope... they'll slink back into the shadows and wait for the next opportunity to bamboozle good patriots into signing their own death warrants. And of course... once again.. neither will be charged with anything. And good peoples lives will be risked for nothing.
We're being goaded into a fight here people...you NEED to see that. And every ONE of you who is advocating for this...Know this... if these people die... it will be YOUR fault. Not mine, nor will it be the fault of ANYONE in ANY unit I command. I simply wont allow it. THIS is the reason my troops follow me.. because I take the time to think these things through...to look at them from ALL directions... not based on sheer emotion as so many of you are doing now.
It was stated, dare I say, TAUGHT to me today by a close friend who is an ex-special forces operator, that wars are not won by people taking rash actions such as the ones that have been taken here. Wars are won with proper planning. That shit hit me like a brick.. And I Will NEVER forget those words as that is the smartest thing I have heard throughout this entire ordeal.
1. Plan
2. Equip
3. Rehearse
4. Execute
THAT'S how you win a battle. THAT'S how you minimize casualties.. THAT'S how you win a war. None of that was done here. Therefore, these guys are all as good as dead.. Why do you think the local sheriff there just said these guys need to leave WHILE THEY STILL CAN... Because he KNOWS whats going to happen to them! He's OFFERING them a way out and DAMNIT THEY NEED TO TAKE IT!
The first thing I teach my guys is when they make unexpected contact with the enemy is, the proper response is to fall back, reset and take back the initiative. That's what we need to do here. Will it look like a loss in the eyes of the people? Absolutely. But hey, you all had better get used to the fact that we are not going to win every battle.. BUT... in the eyes of those who put this whole bullshit plan together... this will be a CRUSHING defeat...Even though it will never be made public knowledge. We have let the enemy pick the time and place of our fight...and that is about to prove to be a fatal mistake. Mark my words..
But we can still snatch victory out of this whole screwed up mess...if ONLY you will listen to me.
How do we win then? Well I'll tell you...
We get those people out of there!!!!!
Anyone and everyone who has contact with the people there needs to PLEAD with them to get the hell out of there... Then, we regroup, and WE pick the time and place of our fight...not the enemy. WE make THEM react.. WE pick ground that is most sensible for a proper defense, not a building in the middle of a field that has absolutely NO defensible positions as in the case of the refuge. Then we properly equip, plan, rehearse, and execute. If you want to win a war...that's how you have to do it. Most importantly.. we expose frauds like Cooper and Payne for who they truly are. and drum them out of the movement before they really get someone killed.
So that my take on this mess... listen to me if you want, ignore me at your own peril... either way it is of no consequence to me. I will not debate this issue, and NO ONE will change my mind about this... I have done too much research into this situation to allow ANY armchair commando to dictate my actions for me. This is the war you all wanted so badly... now either lead follow or get the fuck out of the way. End of story.
"The testimony of Christian Yingling in the strange case of the sociopath/agent provocateur Ryan Payne"
15 Comments -
I have posted similar info and stories to local gun pages to attempt to inform the fudds and bubbas about the man. 3 days later, they were gone. Admin and mods don't know how it happened. Gone.
A critical thinker would start connecting the dots rather quickly and deduce that he's the biggest fish they've landed in years.
January 8, 2016 at 12:45 PM
Good post Mike. No doubt this Payne pain, is indeed a fed infiltrator agent provocateur. Hopefully those with him right now that are with him wake up and smell the coffee.
January 8, 2016 at 1:49 PM
"The China Narrative That Really Matters" by Ben Hunt makes some important observations but places them in a fundamentally mistaken context. Ben asserts, "there's one aspect of the China story that can't heal itself or transform into something more benign from a market perspective, and that's the Narrative of Chinese Government Competence." This is a quarter-truth because the narrative won't transform into something more benign from a market perspective, but that's because the CCP doesn't want such a benign outcome. And, viewed for what it really is, the narrative is already healing itself.
Hunt repeats the common mistake that the "Narrative of Chinese Government Competence" has to do with economic management. This is profoundly mistaken, it ignores virtually everything about the CCP and its actual objectives and methods. The competence the CCP depends on for their legitimacy has always been and remains defense of "China" against foreign threats, both military and cultural. The Nationalists were the proxies for the Western foreign cultural threat, the Japanese were the foreign military threat. Remarkably little has changed in the intervening decades except that Japan became a significant ally of the West. The economic warfare against the West was never primarily understood as a way to make life better for the Chinese people, but as a way to bolster their defense against Western econo-cultural "Imperialism" or whatever. The CCP has consistently downplayed China's economic strength and focused on the narrative of being under constant economic attack.
As long as the CCP continues to blame the West (and 'capitalist collaborators'), a full-scale economic collapse actually strengthens this narrative as well as consolidating their hold on power.
So why is this relevant to the notion of planning our own struggle against tyranny? Because it makes planning based on the idea that the global economy isn't going to implode downright foolish. The Feds literally cannot afford the economic impact of another Waco. The failure to resolve this peacefully will impact the market value of the U.S. dollar by destroying the narrative that the U.S. government is competent. I'm not claiming that the Obama regime is actually competent enough to understand this, I'm sure they're looking for ways to recreate Waco here, as evidenced by recent developments. But they do not have the capital.
Force the militia into hiding and round up any that stand out as domestic terrorists? I'm sure they'd love to do just that, but they will lose the means to do so if they shock the market by killing a bunch of peaceful protesters for no reason at all. Right now the cleverly disengaged (exactly the kind of people still in the markets) see this as an amusingly irrelevant side-show, but will they still feel that way after it's turned into a smoldering pile of dead?
The markets will answer that question, and the answer will be "we no longer trust the government to make good on those dollars they're 'quantitatively easing'."
Like I'm saying, I don't trust Obama to realize that. But in thinking about the contingencies for how to deal with a slaughter in Oregon, we can't afford to follow people who don't understand the real nature and scope of the conflict. I'm sure this guy is a fine unit commander, but he has inadequate grasp of the larger strategic picture here.
And even if he didn't, I never follow defeatists. We fight to win, or we don't bother.
January 8, 2016 at 2:05 PM
I read this either early this morning or yesterday,I forget.But I have to hand it to you Dutchman, as you had this guy Payne's number long ago. And even I, an aging 58 (almost 59)year old female who has no military or LEO experience was listening intently all along as you were talking about this guy being a provocateur. It makes sense and it fits the elite puppet-master's M.O. They've been playing this game for so long I really don't know how anyone falls for it anymore, but they obviously do. question: "How do you spot the Fed. in your group?" answer: "It's the guy always talking about bombing shit!" Why the Bundy's would go along with him is beyond me. Unless, they have some crazy idea that they are going to outwit the counter-intelligence guy by using him to their advantage. Which would, of course, be impossible to do because now you're playing on their chessboard. So why then would he (Bundy) go along? Could he be this ignorant of the games the Feds. play? In this day and age of information at our fingertips I find that impossible. I just pray he doesn't get taken to the proverbial woodshed over this entire fiasco...BTW: your thoughts on the "whys" of the Feds. touching this off would be interesting Dutchman; aside from the obvious painting of militia and gun-toting white, rural folks as lunatics, of course.
January 8, 2016 at 3:17 PM
He's right about this and how it's going and why it's a bad idea. He is wrong if he thinks the FBI killing women and children is going to scare patriots. It's going to piss them off and start a war. Not good, I know, but true nonetheless. This guy is smart but he's also a coward. He's admitted as much.
January 8, 2016 at 5:52 PM
Excellent read, thank you.
But with respect, it does have one gross, glaring error:
"Sorry kids... the ONLY people who can stop the BLM are in DC.. "
Patently false, and harmfully so. The municipality, the Sheriff, the Governor can permanently boot the BLM out of that area with two words: "Get Out."
The BLM has no constitutional authority to exist; the Fed has no constitutional authority to manage that tract of land, and the Supreme Court has no standing to even have an opinion on the topic. Land ownership within State Boundaries is reserved to the States. Any land the Fed does hold can be for "forts and ports", but it loses those if the State boots them out. And that's it. No aspect of The Fed gets to decide what the limits of the Fed's powers are.
Anything other than throwing them out, in regard to "fixing" the BLM, is a distraction - it's akin to a 5-year-old child unilaterally claiming that it gets to decide how many cookies it gets to eat, and the parent trying to convince the child to give up that authority. The entire premise is Utter Fallacy. States don't sue the Fed. States dictate. Fed can sue States, in State courts, but on this topic, they'll have no standing to do so.
You do not "sue" for it. You do not "petition".
You make your local Sheriff and municipality understand the Rule Of Law; you get the Sheriff to comprehend that the Powers that are delegated to the Fed are limited and strictly defined, and this BLM trash aint one of 'em. You help the Sheriff realize that these Feds, running around under the mere Color of Law, aren't actually Feds - they are an unlawful, faux organization, and are exactly non-government citizens acting criminally. And you help him realize that he can order them to cease and desist, or he can arrest them. THIS is "nullification".
And then you help protect him.
If anyone is going to bring a suit, you would sue to compel the State to boot the Feds off its land, and have any State Actors who work to oppose the suit arrested for Criminal Facilitation. But that's really the extent of how the courts would be used in such circumstance.
The States are not subordinate to the Fed. The States are nations, just like Britain, Russia, and Iran. The Fed is nothing more than a co-op. Co-ops don't dictate. Co-ops are subordinate. It's time that we remember that.
Cheers,
January 8, 2016 at 6:24 PM
I asked a good friend about this article. This was his reply
Tom, this guy is a complete liar. Especially if he really was at the Ranch, which I doubt. Buddha is legit. ___ and ___ have known him for years. I met him the day he arrived at the ranch. He was a calm, cool, avowed atheist who distrusted everyone and let it be known that if anyone fired a shot without being fired on first, the second shot would be his hitting them in the back of the head. There was ZERO encouragement of any sort to engage or do anything at all that might even appear as provocative. I have had contact with Buddha continually since then. His whole life has changed as his time there with the Bundys caused him to become a believer and get baptized. The change of humility that came over him in a years time is absolutely phenomenal. And HE and Ammon ran the show. This Ryan Payne and the other one followed their instruction and neither of them ever even remotely raised their head to even suggest defying Buddha or Ammon. Ammon is focused and committed. You can bet any moves made up there were his alone. He is not of the personality type to be led. Another reason I am not sure the writer of this article ever really had anything to do with the Ranch is because the way he describes Ammon is exactly the way he presents himself on tv and to the groups he speaks to. This is the way anyone who doesn't really know him would surmise is going down. But in reality Ammon is a strong leader and very spiritual like his father. Neither of them could ever be manipulated by someone like the way he describes Payne and Buddha as doing. He also names Santilli. I am starting to believe he is also getting a bad rap. This guy, the oath breakers and your vandebough guy are all spouting the same mantra. Why is that? Why do they hate Payne who really had a minimal role at the ranch? It is starting to look like these three groups were given marching orders to take the most committed Patriots and turn people against him. Now I don't care for Santilli, but nothing he has done rises to the level of suspicion these guys are trying to lay on him. It seems they are trying to marginalized him so no one will listen to him. Anyway, having been there with all the parties involved I can tell you the writer of this story smacks of someone who wasn't really there on the inside (in the house where decisions were made) or wasn't even there at all.
January 8, 2016 at 6:54 PM
Do ya think Ryan and his two pals realize that immediately after the flash bangs go pop, they will be SWATed too? The feds certainly wouldn't leave a paid snitch / puppet provocateur in any condition to possibly / probably tell tales.
Am I over thinking this?
MikeH.
A Geriatric Threeper With An Inquiring Mind
January 8, 2016 at 7:24 PM
Actually the Marine Corps verified that Booda was never enlisted. So no, he's not legit.
Secondly, a two second Google or Facebook search pulls up a host of photos showing Yingling not only at the ranch as claimed, but serving in the exact position he claims that he was in.
What does he gain by lying? He's across the country. He's not going, he's not getting anything from it. I think his statement rings far truer than most of the crap I've seen from the guys involved.
January 8, 2016 at 8:59 PM
Ianoymoy at 6:24
Bravo! Absolutely correct. Thank you!
January 8, 2016 at 9:37 PM
Obama wants the set up and he wants people to stand down. He wants his BLM win. I think Mike is right about the dangers and has the actors called properly.
I disagree though that Obama will risk "civilian" casualties. Going in with guns blazing here like Waco would open him up FAR to much to ROE here being fatefully disregarding when ROE are so strict abroad.
Obama's only choice here is wait. And he knows it. The bait here is to get the militias boogeymanned again. Make Militias look scary and like the bad guys.
Mike, the answer to BLM rests in electing a President who will not form a BLM as part of his cabinet. That is the only way to end it, so on that point I agree you are correct about the DC scenario.
But I have to say, it is fast becoming a point of contention - serious one at that.
If not here, where?
If not now, when?
If not this way, how?
If not this reason, why?
Waco 2 already played out in government assassinating people. It went full fledged hide all the evidence too. There was no call to action about mass arrests. Uniform charging and bond and even information denials - political prisoner taking at its finest, and no call to action. The most basic information is hidden to this day. No call to action. I guess eeeevvviiilll motorcycle "gangs" aren't worth it either.
Well, what will be? Every time another encroachment takes place, we are told all the reasons not to defend against it. Every. Time.
I realize this is a messy situation, and for a whole hosts of reasons. Point taken and even when absolutely conceded.....what IS worth stepping up for? Not even ACTUAL Waco 2 was worth it!
Kinda starting to sound like the NRA line we have been dealt for decades. We have to wait for the perfect test case, with the perfect set of circumstances, in the perfect place, at the perfect time and until then we just have to wait. And take it.
It occurs to me that maybe some of the stores being defended at Lexington and Concord may have been held by less than perfect people, maybe even with less that perfect desires, but that so many others were going to harmed by the confiscation that the less than perfect circumstances were just accepted as part of the normal course of things. Nothing is ever perfect, and there comes a point where the fight the gubmint keeps instigating just has to happen, because there is NO avoiding it.
Why is their no avoiding it? Because government will just keep right on advancing, relentlessly, making sure have every grab, ever step forward Juuussssst "messy" enough to make sure it still isn't the "right" time place and manner.
And yes I went there on purpose.
This is happening with or without the militia "leadership". Now. People are dying every day, all over this country, because of the incremental oversteps already taken. SO the claim that loss of life is the decider is disingenuous at best.
The time to stand up and fight back is now. If that out there is what has to light it of, so be it. If you want it to be different, then pick the place and pick the reason. Interestingly, all those against this up there have yet to qualify their opposition with alternative. Lots of reasons why NOT here, why NOT this, but no alternatives on those fronts. Funny that. There never is.
January 8, 2016 at 9:50 PM
Sounds like a bunch of Bozo's to me. The whole world is laughing at them.
January 9, 2016 at 2:42 PM
Heckuva lot of emotional defeatist talk in this piece as well as the comments here. I'd refute some if it but Maz Velocity did it best
http://www.maxvelocitytactical.com/2016/01/the-fear-and-the-paranoia/
His take on it was linked up at Western Rifle Shooters, that's how I found it. There is a commenter up there who sure sounds like somebody who was on the ground at the Bundy Ranch who had this to say:
"There is not one sound byte of evidence presented that he in fact claimed to be a Ranger. It was actually stated by a man named Mike (forget his last name) who headed an organization called Citizen’s Action Network (CAN), and which was not refuted, in a timely manner by Ryan Payne, as it should have been. Bad decision on his part to let that go viral, without a timely refutation. The damage has been done."
I sometimes don't know who the heck to believe anymore. But I don't think it helps us to badmouth the guys up there in Burns since they seem to have made it absolutely clear they want a peaceful protest and are only armed for defense. They haven't harmed anyone or anything so I would tend to think that their actions represent that.
Another thing....if Payne were a fed....why are we a week into this without any provacation? Like I said....their thus far peaceful actions speak volumes.
TheBohunk
January 10, 2016 at 2:24 AM
I don't doubt that there are Fed assets involved in the Bundys. It would be supremely improbable for them not to at least infiltrate informers into such a prominent group, and given how the Feds operate it is a given that some of the informers are going to be provocateurs.
I have no opinion on who exactly is and isn't a Fed asset, it's even possible that one or more of the Bundys themselves have been compromised. We need to just accept that any group which doesn't operate completely in secret with no public presence is going to have informants in it and it isn't worth rooting them out, cause they'll just be replaced either when your group expands or by carefully applied pressure on existing group members.
If you really want a covert group, you break it up into cells and do a loyalty test. Killing a dirty cop is a good one, better if you stage a suicide because that requires multiple initiates (harder to pull off, easier to get away with). If you're not in a group like that (and if you are, don't admit it here for crying out loud), then don't bother about whether anyone is talking to the Feds, just assume that everyone might be and deal with it.
January 10, 2016 at 10:23 PM
COINTELPRO activity didn’t stop during the 60s dealing with the civil rights groups. THEY will obviously employ the same thing against what is seen as white militias that stand in their way. Payne and Cooper were nobodies prior to being chased off the Bundy ranch groups...why do you think they are back and acting like complete a $$holes again? Cui bono? Ask yourself, why is Oath Keepers keeping their distance so publicly? What do they KNOW but aren’t saying? Also what is the MI mission? Infiltrate and disrupt. What doesn’t make sense about this op in Oregon? It makes no sense and their stated end state goal makes no sense either, but militia went along with it following dubious leaders, and i think Ammon Bundy bought into it. He is either coopted by the Feds or he is duped. The e entire op lacks at coherent strategy, coherent goals and lacks taxtical leadership. NOBODY GOES AND DEFENDS LAND OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE IN WINTER TO quote" Take it back."..that so foolish it is obvious stupidity. What kind of strategist and tactician is that phucking stupid, REALLY?
Doesn’t anyone see the obvious similarity between Payne and Cooper and the two meth headcrazies that shot up the Walmart in SLC and left behind a manifesto pointing directly at White Christian militias. The suspects both died and took to the grave their actual secrets about who was directing them. WHY DO PEOPLE NOT SEE THE OBVIOUS USE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT DEEP SNITCHES BEING USED?
Those two in SLC were police Snitches, do you think they actually would have done that crap on their own as amateurish as it was? The cop they killed was unplanned collateral damage!
Cooper and Payne are COINTELPRO...THEY HAVE NO BACKGROUNDS IF YOU GO LOOKING..What you can find is dodgy and sparse but not detailed.
For those of you who can see the obvious (those with any kind of intelligence background), this whole thing has allowed the govt to mark specific threats they will feel to their power by capturing all available intel on militia members not just through their cell phones and the backdoors the NSA exploits through them, but also through Stingray employment, video captured by and during media interviews, embedded intelligence personnel in the media crews to collect intel in person, DRONE TECHNOLOGY. They will exploit every single lead they get. You know also they WANT the militia to show up then go home. The militia members will be like bees carrying the pesticides backed to the nest, they will be tagged and monitored when they get home for all their at home with their ocal contacts. For shame you don’t have any good strategic advisors who will tell you these things...
HOW DO YOU SUPPOSE THEY TRACK GANG MEMEBRS AND RIVAL DRUG CARTEL MEMBERS? Why do you think the use of the Stingray technology is still so widely covered up? They dont need to place a GPS tracker anymore on your vehicle. You CHOOSE TO CARRY IT ALREADY, NO WARRANT NEEDED! Freaking use your heads people, you are giving them everything they need to wage a successful Jade Helm op on you...What do you think JADE HELM was about? Infiltrating and locating opposition figures IN THE USA.. Were SOCOM troops NOT exercising infiltrating AMERICAN towns..Did you not learn anything? The hype was to distract you so you didnt figure out that the place their tactics were going to be used was here (train as you fight in the environment you will fight in as closes as you can).
The bundy ranch was a test to see what militias would do, This is a BETA TEST to PROOF their intelligence gathering in America on militia members on all they have learned and multi agency cooperation of intelligence gather techniques and tactics which is WHAT JADE HELM WAS REALLY ALL ABOUT.
You aren’t seeing the LONGER TERM GOALS of the feds..you are looking at the here and now, not the bigger picture of building the intelligence on the WHOLE militia playing field. The Oregon op is small potatoes, but you don’t kill ants by stomping on them, you make them carry the poison home and kill the whole colony.
Sign Me, Neal Jensen
January 11, 2016 at 7:47 AM