Post a Comment On: C0DE517E

Every time I discuss about engine design, there is quite some interest and feedback going on.
So I figured out I could start a little experiment.
I've created a shared notepad with a few ideas, just open it and start adding your considerations, proposals and so on.

Update: I'd consider this experiment ended. I'm happy to see that many people took part of it, and it was a very nice experience, with some good discussions.

In the end the result may be probably more the expression of what I think than community driven but I think that's understandable, I don't believe that you can really successfully design something in a crowd. Also, I'm a tyrant and that does not help.

I'll post here a snapshot of the result of this game, but I'll keep the pad up and running until it dies naturally.

I'll be organizing something similar again soon, but I want to find something more specific and focused. Maybe some sort of competition using codepad.
http://etherpad.com/ZPBJU3L3zV

[Image] - Layer -1: PrerequisitesCoding guidelines Along the lines of: Fuck C++ OOP. Data is the king. Keep compile times low. Build system Continous build system Static syntax checking Versioning system Code review system


- Layer 0: Language extensions
Compiler abstraction Why: Memory alignment and packing, forcing inline, branch hints, asserts and so on and on Stack walker Module/services system Why: avoid dependency hell. A module should be able to request access to another module, and depends on its interface, but it should not assume that any other module is up and running in order to execute. Code hot-reloading. Faster iteration. Proposal Each module will expose its interface for the other modules to statically link to. Upon loading, the module registers an instance implementing the interface in the module system, that is a (name,pointer) hashmap. Modules can declare dependencies on other modules, failing to load if the dependency is not loaded already, and being notified if the dependency unloads. On platforms that support dynamic linking we support  hot-reloading of modules (serialization/unload/load/deserialiaztion).  Even basic services, like reflection or logging, should be considered  optional and made into a module. 'root' object model Why: we need to have a common base interface for our objects. That will be used for RTTI (really, just a typeId, reflection can take care of everything else) and lifetime management (i.e. reference counting, creationg etc). A COM-like interface can be a solution. Memory allocators Why: Performance, debugging, quotas etc... Proposal A thin interface to request allocations and deallocations. Overrides for built-in C/C++ allocators to reroute third-party code. A configurable allocation framework that lets specify which algorithms to use for a given pools, memory quotas etc. Logging to debug fragmentation and leaks. Should support thread specific memory pools as well to avoid costly un-needed context switches in certain systems (would turn a bit complicated if ptrs were shared between threaded systems though) Object lifetime management Why: Explicit allocations and desctruction is not composable. It doesn't work well with a modularized code base. Proposals Smart-pointers. They are the only structure that lets you implement either garbage collection or reference counting. Prefer using only those Garbage collection: Reference counting is not so cool. Can leak in nasty ways (loops) and it's not so fast either. Requires to queque destructions in order to be executed in the "right" thread (i.e. graphic objects) Reference counting: A performant garbage collector is very hard to write. RC should not be made using intermediate handlers to hold refcount, for maximum performance the refcount should be inside the classes. Also, refcounts should not be explicitly accessible. Each class can implement its own AddRef/Release, the smart-pointers will statically dispatch those calls via templates. AddRef/Release methods still have to be virtual in order to support reflection (i.e. for scripting languages).

- Layer 1: Core libraries
Multithreading support Why: To support multicore and heterogeneous computing environments Proposals Threads and locks support (C++ does not have a standard, we need our interface - it has now in C++0x ). Job scheduler/Thread pool with dependencies between jobs (data parallelism). Has to be SPU friendly. ParallelFor support. Dependencies between jobs can be of different types: normal (just sync), data (a job writes in a memory area, the dependants have access to that, data-parallel (a job processes an array of data structures, the scheduler manages the splitting of the array in different instances of the job), buffered (the jobs writes in a circular-buffer, the dependants read what the job produced last time it ran), steamed (like data-parallel, but assumes that the dependents do not need to wait for the whole array to be processed but can be fired as soon as any element is done). Inter-thread messaging is needed in many cases (i.e. schedule GPU work from the game or loading threads that do not own the rendering device) Check out: Intel TBB, Apple Grand Central, C# Parallel FX Resource layer Why: provide an abstracted access to file and network resources. Support for hotloading/swapping/streaming/async loading Proposal Hotloading means that everything has to be accessed using handles... (Not neccesarily, but not using them makes it messier. You have to notify the resource consumers that a resource has changed) Reflection system Why: Reflection/Introspection is needed for serialization, networking, live-editing (tools),  scripting, garbage collection and so on Proposals A simple name hash for the type id. Parse the program debug database (i.e. PDB)  and convert it into a reflection DB, as a compile step. Provide a pretty  generic interface for reflection queries Pros: Avoids template/macro magic and stuff like that. The  database can be loaded on demand and split to alleviate memory  requirements. Complex queries are possible. Changing implementation does  not require changing everything in the source. The database is  accessible easily from other languages, can be used to gather code  metrics, do coverage analysis and other stuff. Works with third-party  code and libraries Cons: Less easy to provide custom attributes. Serialization often requires custom  functions for some class members. Calling reflected functions (i.e. to  instantiate a reflected class) requires compiler-specific trickery (You  can use packaged function pointers - elaborate?) Math library Proposals Linear algebra: classes for Vector2, Vector3, Vector4,  Matrix4x4, Matrix2x2, Quaternion and ScaleRotationTranslation class.  Geometry: classes for primitive intersection, distance and various other  shit as needed. Classes for VPU abstraction (SIMD). Random numbers... Pros: Having an SRT class lets you use a 3x4 affine matrix or  quaternions internally. Also you can make sure that no skews are ever  generated. The main math library should be SIMD friendly (align data)  but VPU operations can be actually slower for general purpose  computation (i.e. when doing a lot of logic, and scalar operations,  branches). SIMD processing should be hand-optimized inside loops. Collections library Why: STL is not alignment-friendly. STL is not designed to be used in interfaces. Standard STL implementations are very hard to debug. Standard STL  implementations won't play nicely with reflection. Performance varies on different platforms. Proposals We need a few specific containers that are fast when used as  templates, but can be also generically passed around (an inspiration can  be the C# containers). The API should stay close to STL when possible.  vector, fixed_vector, hash_map, queue, stack, lockless_queque, n-ary tree, skip lists, probabilistic set (i.e. bloom filter), perfect hashing... http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2007/n2271.htm Second option: Creating custom containers is too hard, just choose a good STL and add to that (memory allocators that respect a given alignment and maybe some extensions in terms of algorithms). Reflection would still be quite a problem Global parameter system Why: we need support for shared runtime parameters, reflection  is 'only' about per-object stuff. Also reflection can't handle a  parameter database like the one that is needed for shader parameters and  so on...  Proposal Parameters have to be organized in sections. We can have  different types of sections, but I'd say we need at least: "external"  read-only and linked to a database where the values can be organized in a  meaningful way, "shared" where a spinlock is used to regulate the  access to the class, "thread" that have to be accessed always from the  same thread, "threadmessage" that are like "thread" but support a list  of callbacks to be called when a parameter chages. Simply networking  layer Why: to connect to pc-side tools. Needs to provide RFC (can leverage on  reflection!). RFC can be used for automated testing as well... Profiling Logging Serialization/versioning Critique To me here there is a dilemma.  Should the framework be based, for its data, on reflection and serialization, or should it use a parameter database (materials,  properties) and specific file formats (meshes, textures...)? Of course  an answer could be "both" and I guess you need code for both, but there  is still a design decision to be made here   - Layer 2:  Low-level rendering infrastructure
Rendering device abstraction Why: to support multiple platforms/API Proposals DX11 style.  No direct access to single renderstates and resources, block uploads.  Support for multiple devices/command buffer recording. Mesh dispatch  interface. Needs wrappers for meshes/streams/textures etc. Native API have always to be usable:  device has to be stateless, or support state flushing/invalidation. Debug rendering interface Why: tools, graphs etc Proposals Primitives,  text, lines etc... Immediate-mode drawing  (beginPrimitive-pushVertex...-endPrimitive). Thread-safe (i.e. every  command gets pushed into a lockless queque). Needs to support command  sorting (i.e. differentiate between 2d draw and 3d debug objects) Debug GUI Why:  widgets and so on... Proposals IMGui idea? http://www.mollyrocket.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=10 Effect system Why: To simplify creation of  shaders and implentation of graphic techniques Proposals Similar to D3DXEffect, CgFx Natively integrated into  low-level rendering infrastructure Parameter editing GUI Why: In game inspection and editing  of the parameter system, uses the debug rendering and debug gui Graphic resource loaders Why: Implementation of resources (see  the resource layer) for graphics assets Graphic data manipulation Why: Conditioning and runtime data  generation. We need texture and mesh tools, that make working on the CPU  with those resources as easy as doing that in the GPU. DXT compression  is also needed.
- Layer 3: User-level libraries Scripting system/hooks Proposals Code-generated bindings from the reflection data still a lot of things missing obviously here, i.e. skinning, vertex/uv/geometry processing, lods, shadows, posteffects and so on. No consensus was reached on those - External Layer: ToolsReflection inspector Automated testing