Grahame, Can I ask what your case level is? Have you done OT III? Have you read the OT III materials or heard the Class VIII tape on the subject? This material is on the internet in Hubbard's handwriting and in his recorded voice. It's gone way beyond a flat denial. The fact is that Scientologists WILL NOT discuss this material and simply deny it exists. That's not an adequate response, not with the actual material out and in public view. It's your blog and you can say what you want and block what you don't want, but I'm just sayin', your post is a bit evasive, and I think most people can see that.
I won't discuss what is or is not on the OT levels, that's my choice. If you want to discuss this subject then why address materials that Scientologists consider confidential and are unwilling to talk about? Why not try something that is actually publicly available like the book "History of Man"? Or what about the publicly available tape lectures "Ron's Journal 67" Or "The Free Being."? Or what about the book "Have You Lived Before This Life?"
The thing that you are missing is what I said in my post, third paragraph from the bottom (please read it again). What is written in "History of Man" and discussed in those lectures is a record of research findings from the recollections of thousands of individuals. It's about the past that we remember. It's about spiritual beings. It's about us. It's not about some other entities. It's not about "aliens".
If you think what is in "History of Man" is "aliens" then fine. Feel free to call it that. But it is NOT what the Raelians, Zetatalkites, the Aetherius Society and other "UFO Religions" talk about, so don't position Scientology along side them. That is what I object to.
If you want to position Scientology next to other religions then try Buddhism or Hinduism.
The majority of Scientology is all about the here and now and how to live a better life. No one has to believe anything about past lives or spiritual beings to be able to use the practical life technology of Scientology. People trying to attack it by positioning it next "UFO Religions" are simply trying to deny others the chance to live better lives.
Well said, Grahame. I have made this point myself. Point being that Scientologists could care less about "aliens" and have no special interest in them or knowledge that anyone else might have. The simple matter is that Scientologist live here and now and believe that we can live better lives in the here and now by dealing with spiritual baggage we carry from this life and from previous lives. The fact that previous lives were in other cultures, other civilizations, perhaps even other planets is a matter of subjective reality to the person experiencing it and has validity only for them and in the context of an auditing session. Our beliefs and practices are nothing to be ashamed of and critics twist them into unrecognizable forms to mock us. Shame on them.
Oh, and good on ya for this blog. I like it when Scientologists are in communication and answer questions. Also remember First Policy:
HCO PL 2 Sept 1970 FIRST POLICY
The first policy of a Scientology Org, laid down on about 8 or 10 March 1950, is: MAINTAIN FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PUBLIC."
#1. aliens (or life existing throughout the universe), and #2. advanced courses in Scientology
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#1) Mr. Hubbard traveled all over the world and talked with a lot of people. People from different cultures told stories about living before or the possibility of life throughout the universe. Mr. Hubbard wrote what he found.
A few of these stories have been altered and then misinterpreted as a "secret major belief" in Scientology. However:
a. They're not secret. b. They're not major. c. They're not a belief.
Or, in more detail:
a. These stories are available in other publicly available Scientology books and lectures. b. They make up a very, very small part of the subject (much less than 1%). c. No one has to believe them (or believe anything else in Scientology).
They're simply one of the things people can study if they want to.
The _vast bulk_ of Scientology is about other things. I think this is what annoys some Scientologists: they really enjoy helping people, and there are _huge_ amounts of helpful tools in Scientology, but because of these lies and misinterpretations they have to deal with stupid questions about aliens.
-----
#2) From everything I've studied (actual Scientology and rumors about Scientology), I'd describe advanced courses as more intense applications built upon the Scientology that is avalable to anyone already.
The only people not welcome on those courses are those few people who enjoy confusing, upsetting and hurting others. Anyone who shows that they are genuinely willing to help others can take those courses if they want to, regardless of gender, race, politics, other religious beliefs, etc.
After all, Scientology is about helping people (yourself and others). If you look at it thoroughly, that's what it's really about.
-----
The real question is why do some people so carefully ignore the other 99% of Scientology. Maybe you have an answer to that.
Me, I have a question about that 99%. I'll put it in your post on what you do believe.
J.R. LeMar said stuff about the Scientology Advanced Level called "OT3".
So, I have done OT3. I don't discuss what is or is not on the Advanced Levels.
The point you are missing JR is what somethingnice said in his post and what I said in my answer to Jeff.
Scientologists believe in spiritual beings. We believe we have lived before. During Scientology counseling people recall past lives. People recall lives before they came to Earth. If you want to call that "space aliens" then you can. I call it spiritual beings and I regard it from that viewpoint.
The attempts to say that a spiritual belief is a "space alien" belief is simply an attempt by bigots to attack our beliefs. It's like in the early days of Christianity when critics accused Christians of ritual cannibalism because of the Eucharist. It is a spiritual activity, done from a spiritual viewpoint. It is not ritual cannibalism.
If I recall something that happened in a past life, before I came to Earth, then that is a spiritual experience. It is not "space aliens."
prgolden asked about "Arslychus" which is briefly mentioned in the book "History of Man".
In the early 1950's when new methods of helping people to recall were discovered and used, people started recalling prior existences.
The interesting thing is that many people recalled the same things. They recalled their own prior existences and some of these memories included existences before Earth.
Many of these common recollections are described in "History of Man"
Arslychus was just such a thing. Many people remembered past lives as part of that society. More details can be found in the book "History of Man".
Here are some questions and answers regarding Scientology and aliens: Do Scientologists worship aliens? No. Do Scientologists believe that someone in the religion is in contact with aliens? No. Do Scientologist believe we are descended from aliens? No. Do books on Scientology mention aliens? No. Are aliens contained in the beliefs of Scientology? No. When religious scholars have examined Scientology have they found that Scientology contains a belief in aliens? No. So why do you find descriptions of Scientology on the Internet that insist that we do believe such things?
The two simplest explanations I have come up with are Religious Bigotry and the thing the media seems to worship called "Controversy."
Bigotry
People who, for whatever reason, hate Scientology and Scientologists are the ones who started this whole "they believe in aliens" thing. It's an old technique: you make the target of your hatred look weird, strange or dangerous so that people won't object when you attack them.
One of the most famous uses of this technique was in the creation of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", a fabricated document that was claimed to be the Jewish plan for world domination. Despite being proven over and over and over and over again to be a complete fake, it is still being used to this day, a hundred years after its first publication, by anti-Semitic groups to attack Jews.
So I guess Scientologists have to expect that the same old lies about us will still be circulating in a hundred years. It seems to be part of human nature to hold onto false data to justify hatred or bad acts.
Controversy
The media seems to think that controversy is essential to a news story. Forget such unimportant things as facts or truth. Controversy, Conflict, Big Names, Harm, Sex, Money - these are the things the media believes attracts eyeballs or sells newspapers. So if some bigot says "they believe in aliens" then that is far more attractive to the news hounds than "they believe man is a spiritual being."
Truth
From the article "Doctrine of the Scientology Religion" Scientology religious doctrine includes certain fundamental truths. Prime among them are that man is a spiritual being whose existence spans more than one life and who is endowed with abilities well beyond those which he normally considers he possesses. He is not only able to solve his own problems, accomplish his goals and gain lasting happiness, but also to achieve new states of spiritual awareness he may never have dreamed possible.Because we believe we have lived before (something we share with most Eastern religions), because we believe we've been around for a very, very long time, because we believe that we (as spiritual beings) existed before this planet did and because we can recall existences prior to this planet, the bigots twist this to mean we believe in aliens and try to position us with the "UFO Religions" who believe they are currently in contact with aliens. I hope my post yesterday and this one show how false that is.
Bigots don't care about truth. They will twist it to suit their own ends (Just look at how "Jeff" twisted the beliefs of Christianity to make it look like a UFO Religion). The order of magnitude of the attacks on Scientology is nothing compared to what the Jews have had to deal with for thousands of years or the Mormons for 150 years, but the same methodology of misinformation, twisted facts and outright lies is being used.
So the moral of the story is "don't believe everything you read: think for yourself".
"Why Aliens?"
5 Comments -
Jeff says:
Grahame, Can I ask what your case level is? Have you done OT III? Have you read the OT III materials or heard the Class VIII tape on the subject? This material is on the internet in Hubbard's handwriting and in his recorded voice. It's gone way beyond a flat denial. The fact is that Scientologists WILL NOT discuss this material and simply deny it exists. That's not an adequate response, not with the actual material out and in public view. It's your blog and you can say what you want and block what you don't want, but I'm just sayin', your post is a bit evasive, and I think most people can see that.
I won't discuss what is or is not on the OT levels, that's my choice. If you want to discuss this subject then why address materials that Scientologists consider confidential and are unwilling to talk about? Why not try something that is actually publicly available like the book "History of Man"? Or what about the publicly available tape lectures "Ron's Journal 67" Or "The Free Being."? Or what about the book "Have You Lived Before This Life?"
The thing that you are missing is what I said in my post, third paragraph from the bottom (please read it again). What is written in "History of Man" and discussed in those lectures is a record of research findings from the recollections of thousands of individuals. It's about the past that we remember. It's about spiritual beings. It's about us. It's not about some other entities. It's not about "aliens".
If you think what is in "History of Man" is "aliens" then fine. Feel free to call it that. But it is NOT what the Raelians, Zetatalkites, the Aetherius Society and other "UFO Religions" talk about, so don't position Scientology along side them. That is what I object to.
If you want to position Scientology next to other religions then try Buddhism or Hinduism.
The majority of Scientology is all about the here and now and how to live a better life. No one has to believe anything about past lives or spiritual beings to be able to use the practical life technology of Scientology. People trying to attack it by positioning it next "UFO Religions" are simply trying to deny others the chance to live better lives.
8:04 PM
Well said, Grahame. I have made this point myself. Point being that Scientologists could care less about "aliens" and have no special interest in them or knowledge that anyone else might have. The simple matter is that Scientologist live here and now and believe that we can live better lives in the here and now by dealing with spiritual baggage we carry from this life and from previous lives. The fact that previous lives were in other cultures, other civilizations, perhaps even other planets is a matter of subjective reality to the person experiencing it and has validity only for them and in the context of an auditing session. Our beliefs and practices are nothing to be ashamed of and critics twist them into unrecognizable forms to mock us. Shame on them.
Oh, and good on ya for this blog. I like it when Scientologists are in communication and answer questions. Also remember First Policy:
HCO PL 2 Sept 1970 FIRST POLICY
The first policy of a Scientology Org, laid down on about 8 or 10 March 1950, is: MAINTAIN FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PUBLIC."
L. RON HUBBARD
Founder
Keep up the good work!!
12:23 PM
These are my observations.
There are two issues that can get confused:
#1. aliens (or life existing throughout the universe), and
#2. advanced courses in Scientology
-----
#1) Mr. Hubbard traveled all over the world and talked with a lot of people. People from different cultures told stories about living before or the possibility of life throughout the universe. Mr. Hubbard wrote what he found.
A few of these stories have been altered and then misinterpreted as a "secret major belief" in Scientology. However:
a. They're not secret.
b. They're not major.
c. They're not a belief.
Or, in more detail:
a. These stories are available in other publicly available Scientology books and lectures.
b. They make up a very, very small part of the subject (much less than 1%).
c. No one has to believe them (or believe anything else in Scientology).
They're simply one of the things people can study if they want to.
The _vast bulk_ of Scientology is about other things. I think this is what annoys some Scientologists: they really enjoy helping people, and there are _huge_ amounts of helpful tools in Scientology, but because of these lies and misinterpretations they have to deal with stupid questions about aliens.
-----
#2) From everything I've studied (actual Scientology and rumors about Scientology), I'd describe advanced courses as more intense applications built upon the Scientology that is avalable to anyone already.
The only people not welcome on those courses are those few people who enjoy confusing, upsetting and hurting others. Anyone who shows that they are genuinely willing to help others can take those courses if they want to, regardless of gender, race, politics, other religious beliefs, etc.
After all, Scientology is about helping people (yourself and others). If you look at it thoroughly, that's what it's really about.
-----
The real question is why do some people so carefully ignore the other 99% of Scientology. Maybe you have an answer to that.
Me, I have a question about that 99%. I'll put it in your post on what you do believe.
9:57 PM
J.R. LeMar said stuff about the Scientology Advanced Level called "OT3".
So, I have done OT3. I don't discuss what is or is not on the Advanced Levels.
The point you are missing JR is what somethingnice said in his post and what I said in my answer to Jeff.
Scientologists believe in spiritual beings. We believe we have lived before. During Scientology counseling people recall past lives. People recall lives before they came to Earth. If you want to call that "space aliens" then you can. I call it spiritual beings and I regard it from that viewpoint.
The attempts to say that a spiritual belief is a "space alien" belief is simply an attempt by bigots to attack our beliefs. It's like in the early days of Christianity when critics accused Christians of ritual cannibalism because of the Eucharist. It is a spiritual activity, done from a spiritual viewpoint. It is not ritual cannibalism.
If I recall something that happened in a past life, before I came to Earth, then that is a spiritual experience. It is not "space aliens."
I hope you can understand that.
6:43 PM
prgolden asked about "Arslychus" which is briefly mentioned in the book "History of Man".
In the early 1950's when new methods of helping people to recall were discovered and used, people started recalling prior existences.
The interesting thing is that many people recalled the same things. They recalled their own prior existences and some of these memories included existences before Earth.
Many of these common recollections are described in "History of Man"
Arslychus was just such a thing. Many people remembered past lives as part of that society. More details can be found in the book "History of Man".
7:26 PM