Honestly, what the fuck. Will someone, please, not lie to us?
December 20, 2010 at 9:41 PM
Anonymous said...
Good luck with that one... The only substantive information that wikileaks has provided has been proof that our governments lie like hell, and cover things up.
December 20, 2010 at 9:58 PM
Anonymous said...
So, what we can concur from this report is that there's no goddamn conspiracy! It is very obvious how the events progressed, and Assange, like any person who's broken the law, is now exhausting all remedies to avoid prosecution.
Having sex with a person who is asleep is a CRIME in Sweden. Having unprotected sex with a person who demands you use protection is UNFAIR and most definitely a form of SEXUAL ABUSE or COERCION. Exactly like the Swedish police has reported to the public! How strange! Maybe, just maybe these accusations are well-founded, after all? These women are brave for daring to speak out against such powerful figure.
But I know my comment will be in vain against a mass of million Internet-browsing monkeys. Its heading can not be turned. It will ignore any evidence, because it "knows", because it read so from such and such news source. When it decides that something is a conspiracy, it will ignore all real evidence. It will tout its "conspiracy" horn to the World's end. Even when confronted by evidence of contrary; such will reinterpreted to support the movement's cause. Even when confronted by one of the best and least corrupt legal systems in the World; such entity is believed to be controlled by a foreign secret service. Even when confronted by facts about the legal realities of a country; such are pretended not to exist.
WikiLeaks is not an organization for its followers anymore. It has become a religion for them – much like any other anti-American establishment in the West. For its following of million Internet-browsing monkeys, truth is of nil value, because truth is the first victim of their imaginary warfare against the perceived imperialist power.
Julian Assange is not Jesus Christ! He is humane, and can make mistakes like everyone. Right now he has (literally and figuratively) screwed really bad, and is using his position as the head of WikiLeaks to flee from justice and twist the facts. Don't be fooled by his rhetorics, use your own head and inform yourself about the facts independelty! I support bringing all criminals to justice, no matter what their position in the society. I hope you can understand why, and join my simple cause.
December 20, 2010 at 11:03 PM
Anonymous said...
So I guess wikileaks can say mission accomplished?
December 21, 2010 at 12:59 AM
Anonymous said...
Let's see the original of the leaked report. I don't believe anything anymore unless I can see the original document or an exact copy.
December 21, 2010 at 1:15 AM
Anonymous said...
Asking any government to not lie is equivalent of asking the same government to not exist. It's simply what they do because governments always think they know what is "best" for us. If they'd get caught lying a bit more often, maybe it would massive incentive for them not to do it!
December 21, 2010 at 1:20 AM
Anonymous said...
If the condom fits you must acquit
December 21, 2010 at 2:40 AM
Anonymous said...
i have a few new concepts that may be of relevance here.
In europe your innocent until proven guilty,
evidence must be based on proof, just because someone says that something happened doesn't make it true
no where in this report is there proof of non-consensual sex, proving non-consensual sex is hard, which is why so many people get away with rape and sexual abuse
In the uk, proof has to beyond reasonable doubt, I suspect the same is in sweden.
as far as I am aware sweden has made no offer of evidence.
Until such time as we know the facts of the case and the evidence everything else is speculation.
I must in the case mention that I have met and chatted to julian on various occasions and he has been nothing but friendly albeit fairly reserved. I found him truly likeable and I can see why people attracted to men would find him attractive.
December 21, 2010 at 4:18 AM
Anonymous said...
Anon3 -- there's far more reason to doubt the rape allegations than mere conspiracy theory and/or media insinuations and/or Assange personality cult. The facts themselves already cast a great deal of suspicion. The very words which these women spoke and wrote will be used in evidence. Then you will be able to judge clearly. Also, the justice system which you praise already threw this case out once.
December 21, 2010 at 4:37 AM
Anonymous said...
I agree with an above poster that Julian is humane; in my opinion the said poster isn't, he just pretends. Seems amusing that "independently" is written in bold but misspelled.
December 21, 2010 at 5:12 AM
Anonymous said...
So, Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous, how do you *know for a fact* that Assange had sex with these women when they were asleep?
What is your position with the CIA, by the way? Just curious.
December 21, 2010 at 5:30 AM
Anonymous said...
Mr Assange may or may not be innocent of the charges of sexual misconduct. Consensuality is imperative in sexual relations. But let a Swedish court determine that truth.
However, what other person IN THE WORLD has been pursued by TWO NATIONS over sexual misconduct charges? Show me that, and I will believe this is not an elaborate attempt to get him and sabotage Wikileaks.
December 21, 2010 at 5:41 AM
Anonymous said...
To comment #3, the "evidence" in the case may or may not be true, interesting though he's being accused of a crime of a sexual nature where in many cases there is no evidence other than the "victim"'s word required and it is pretty much impossible to disprove such allogations, there is no good defense other than the accused's word.
December 21, 2010 at 5:57 AM
Anonymous said...
No doubt that Assange is at least a jerk. Whether or not he is guilty of these criminal accusations, that much is true. Thing is, we don't know all of the evidence (nor the quality of it) just yet. I could see it as a frame-up, but I can also see it pointing to his guilt.
Wikileaks did a public service by releasing the document copies, in spite of Assange's ego getting in the way. And boy, does he have an ego.
What I am more concerned about is the fate of Bradley Manning. He's the one who really is getting the shaft. Not only is he being held in solitary confinement (while Assange is under house arrest on an estate), but a pledge of financial support by Wikileaks has yet to be fulfilled.
The only judgements that can be made at this point are: 1) Assange is at least a jerk and 2) Wikileaks is obligated to help Manning and it's inexcusable that they haven't so far.
December 21, 2010 at 9:11 AM
Anonymous said...
So, what we can concur from this report is that there's no goddamn conspiracy!
No, we can't concur, since there is a dispute, you can say you deduce there is no conspiracy, but there's certainly no evidence provided one way or another in this report.
My conclusion from the report is that it is a statement of the police argument, not an objective form of evidence. The facts of the matter have to be decided by a court if it comes to that. Until that time, he is innocent until proven guilty.
It is very obvious how the events progressed
To you, perhaps. To others it is just as obvious that the first woman was ecstatic about how events went until quite some time afterwards, when she had communicated with the second woman.
If she decided to lie to the police to get revenge on Julian (which is the advice she published to jilted women on her infamous blog), then by definition she formed a conspiracy. Perhaps it was a small one, or perhaps it involved intelligence agencies and was a large one, but you are jumping to a conclusion to say that the police report is itself proof there is no conspiracy.
Having sex with a person who is asleep is a CRIME in Sweden.
Trying to win an argument by CAPITALISATION is a CRIME everywhere.
Really, i could go on, but you sound like you have forgotten to take your medication, and I'm rather expecting you to turn out to be part of the lynch mob that wants him killed on the grounds of him being a commie pinko traitor.
December 21, 2010 at 4:06 PM
Anonymous said...
Governments do not lie. People lie. Just as guns do not kill people, people kill people. As long as someone has something to loose they will lie. That goes for both sides.
Where it gets interesting is why we lie? Can a lie serve a good purpose such as to protect innocent lives?
The answer like all non empirical things is dependent on each individuals perception.
Why don't we as a society concentrate on the important things like making sure that everyone has a good standard of living rather than the unbiased opinions of a countries diplomatic service or a wealthy man's morality?
December 21, 2010 at 6:49 PM
Anonymous said...
Oh, i had a lot of unprotected sex... I am criminal! I used not more then ten condoms in my life. Fuck. One good thing - i newer been to Sweden :)
December 21, 2010 at 7:24 PM
Anonymous said...
In my country, girls can't sleep while having sex. Unless they are poisoned.
How they did notice Assange and sex with him, when they were sleeping, afterall!?
December 24, 2010 at 10:41 PM
(PTI) The 68-page confidential report prepared by Swedish police got leaked which tells the police version on the alleged sexual misconduct by the Julian assange.
The Swedish report traces events over a four-day period in August this year when 39-year-old Assange had what he has described as consensual sexual relationships with two Swedish women.
Their accounts, which form the basis of an extradition case against Assange, state that their encounters with him began consensually, but became non-consensual when he persisted in having unprotected sex with them in defiance of their insistence that he use a condom, New York Times reports.
The Times, which obtained a redacted form of the report in Swedish, says it is a preliminary summary of the evidence taken by investigators in August after their initial interviews with the two women and with Assange, who left Sweden for Britain in early October but subsequently refused to return to Sweden for further questioning.
Assange has told friends in Britain that he concluded that the Swedish case was being driven by a desire to punish him for WikiLeaks' disclosures, and to fatally weaken the organisation.
The Swedish document traces the accounts given by the two women of their intimate encounters with Assange.
Both women say that Assange first agreed to use a condom and then refused, in the first instance by continuing with sex after the condom broke, and in the second by having sex without using a condom with a woman who was asleep, the Times reports.
Assange himself has declined to publicly address the women's accounts directly, both before his December 7 arrest on the Swedish extradition warrant and since he was released from a 10-day period in a London jail on Thursday after posting a $310,000 bail.
But he has vehemently denied any wrongdoing, and has long insisted that he is the victim of a political conspiracy.
He has said that the case presented in the London courts was "a smear attempt," and that the impending publication of the Swedish police report amounted to "another smear attempt."
Assange told the BBC that he did not know "precisely who is behind" the "conspiracy" against him, although his supporters have flooded the Internet with charges that the CIA is working to discredit him.
And in his police interview, he said the women's accounts included "incredible lies."
18 Comments
Close this window Jump to comment formHonestly, what the fuck. Will someone, please, not lie to us?
December 20, 2010 at 9:41 PM
Good luck with that one... The only substantive information that wikileaks has provided has been proof that our governments lie like hell, and cover things up.
December 20, 2010 at 9:58 PM
So, what we can concur from this report is that there's no goddamn conspiracy! It is very obvious how the events progressed, and Assange, like any person who's broken the law, is now exhausting all remedies to avoid prosecution.
Having sex with a person who is asleep is a CRIME in Sweden. Having unprotected sex with a person who demands you use protection is UNFAIR and most definitely a form of SEXUAL ABUSE or COERCION. Exactly like the Swedish police has reported to the public! How strange! Maybe, just maybe these accusations are well-founded, after all? These women are brave for daring to speak out against such powerful figure.
But I know my comment will be in vain against a mass of million Internet-browsing monkeys. Its heading can not be turned. It will ignore any evidence, because it "knows", because it read so from such and such news source. When it decides that something is a conspiracy, it will ignore all real evidence. It will tout its "conspiracy" horn to the World's end. Even when confronted by evidence of contrary; such will reinterpreted to support the movement's cause. Even when confronted by one of the best and least corrupt legal systems in the World; such entity is believed to be controlled by a foreign secret service. Even when confronted by facts about the legal realities of a country; such are pretended not to exist.
WikiLeaks is not an organization for its followers anymore. It has become a religion for them – much like any other anti-American establishment in the West. For its following of million Internet-browsing monkeys, truth is of nil value, because truth is the first victim of their imaginary warfare against the perceived imperialist power.
Julian Assange is not Jesus Christ! He is humane, and can make mistakes like everyone. Right now he has (literally and figuratively) screwed really bad, and is using his position as the head of WikiLeaks to flee from justice and twist the facts. Don't be fooled by his rhetorics, use your own head and inform yourself about the facts independelty! I support bringing all criminals to justice, no matter what their position in the society. I hope you can understand why, and join my simple cause.
December 20, 2010 at 11:03 PM
So I guess wikileaks can say mission accomplished?
December 21, 2010 at 12:59 AM
Let's see the original of the leaked report. I don't believe anything anymore unless I can see the original document or an exact copy.
December 21, 2010 at 1:15 AM
Asking any government to not lie is equivalent of asking the same government to not exist. It's simply what they do because governments always think they know what is "best" for us. If they'd get caught lying a bit more often, maybe it would massive incentive for them not to do it!
December 21, 2010 at 1:20 AM
If the condom fits you must acquit
December 21, 2010 at 2:40 AM
i have a few new concepts that may be of relevance here.
In europe your innocent until proven guilty,
evidence must be based on proof, just because someone says that something happened doesn't make it true
no where in this report is there proof of non-consensual sex, proving non-consensual sex is hard, which is why so many people get away with rape and sexual abuse
In the uk, proof has to beyond reasonable doubt, I suspect the same is in sweden.
as far as I am aware sweden has made no offer of evidence.
Until such time as we know the facts of the case and the evidence everything else is speculation.
I must in the case mention that I have met and chatted to julian on various occasions and he has been nothing but friendly albeit fairly reserved. I found him truly likeable and I can see why people attracted to men would find him attractive.
December 21, 2010 at 4:18 AM
Anon3 -- there's far more reason to doubt the rape allegations than mere conspiracy theory and/or media insinuations and/or Assange personality cult. The facts themselves already cast a great deal of suspicion. The very words which these women spoke and wrote will be used in evidence. Then you will be able to judge clearly. Also, the justice system which you praise already threw this case out once.
December 21, 2010 at 4:37 AM
I agree with an above poster that Julian is humane; in my opinion the said poster isn't, he just pretends. Seems amusing that "independently" is written in bold but misspelled.
December 21, 2010 at 5:12 AM
So, Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous, how do you *know for a fact* that Assange had sex with these women when they were asleep?
What is your position with the CIA, by the way? Just curious.
December 21, 2010 at 5:30 AM
Mr Assange may or may not be innocent of the charges of sexual misconduct. Consensuality is imperative in sexual relations. But let a Swedish court determine that truth.
However, what other person IN THE WORLD has been pursued by TWO NATIONS over sexual misconduct charges? Show me that, and I will believe this is not an elaborate attempt to get him and sabotage Wikileaks.
December 21, 2010 at 5:41 AM
To comment #3, the "evidence" in the case may or may not be true, interesting though he's being accused of a crime of a sexual nature where in many cases there is no evidence other than the "victim"'s word required and it is pretty much impossible to disprove such allogations, there is no good defense other than the accused's word.
December 21, 2010 at 5:57 AM
No doubt that Assange is at least a jerk. Whether or not he is guilty of these criminal accusations, that much is true. Thing is, we don't know all of the evidence (nor the quality of it) just yet. I could see it as a frame-up, but I can also see it pointing to his guilt.
Wikileaks did a public service by releasing the document copies, in spite of Assange's ego getting in the way. And boy, does he have an ego.
What I am more concerned about is the fate of Bradley Manning. He's the one who really is getting the shaft. Not only is he being held in solitary confinement (while Assange is under house arrest on an estate), but a pledge of financial support by Wikileaks has yet to be fulfilled.
The only judgements that can be made at this point are: 1) Assange is at least a jerk and 2) Wikileaks is obligated to help Manning and it's inexcusable that they haven't so far.
December 21, 2010 at 9:11 AM
So, what we can concur from this report is that there's no goddamn conspiracy!
No, we can't concur, since there is a dispute, you can say you deduce there is no conspiracy, but there's certainly no evidence provided one way or another in this report.
My conclusion from the report is that it is a statement of the police argument, not an objective form of evidence. The facts of the matter have to be decided by a court if it comes to that. Until that time, he is innocent until proven guilty.
It is very obvious how the events progressed
To you, perhaps.
To others it is just as obvious that the first woman was ecstatic about how events went until quite some time afterwards, when she had communicated with the second woman.
If she decided to lie to the police to get revenge on Julian (which is the advice she published to jilted women on her infamous blog), then by definition she formed a conspiracy. Perhaps it was a small one, or perhaps it involved intelligence agencies and was a large one, but you are jumping to a conclusion to say that the police report is itself proof there is no conspiracy.
Having sex with a person who is asleep is a CRIME in Sweden.
Trying to win an argument by CAPITALISATION is a CRIME everywhere.
Really, i could go on, but you sound like you have forgotten to take your medication, and I'm rather expecting you to turn out to be part of the lynch mob that wants him killed on the grounds of him being a commie pinko traitor.
December 21, 2010 at 4:06 PM
Governments do not lie. People lie. Just as guns do not kill people, people kill people. As long as someone has something to loose they will lie. That goes for both sides.
Where it gets interesting is why we lie? Can a lie serve a good purpose such as to protect innocent lives?
The answer like all non empirical things is dependent on each individuals perception.
Why don't we as a society concentrate on the important things like making sure that everyone has a good standard of living rather than the unbiased opinions of a countries diplomatic service or a wealthy man's morality?
December 21, 2010 at 6:49 PM
Oh, i had a lot of unprotected sex... I am criminal! I used not more then ten condoms in my life. Fuck. One good thing - i newer been to Sweden :)
December 21, 2010 at 7:24 PM
In my country, girls can't sleep while having sex. Unless they are poisoned.
How they did notice Assange and sex with him, when they were sleeping, afterall!?
December 24, 2010 at 10:41 PM