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"02-23-10 - Image Compresson - Color , ScieLab"

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Blogger cbloom said...

BTW I should note here that I've been noticing something else funny, which is that there are really two different ways to rate "perceptual quality".

One is by "how close is this to the original". (eg. toggling with the original and assigning a "distance")

Another is simple "how good does this look" (without comparing to an original). (eg. just looking at dest and assigning a "quality")

I think that scielab delta E is pretty good for the first, but not for the second. Similarly, SSIM seems to be pretty strong for the second but not so much for the first. I think that the x264 SATD might be more of the second than the first.

February 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you a/b downsampled vs. non-downsampled chroma with the exact same bit allocation? Your description of the comparison sounds like it was of a version that was changing the Y bits (that is, you seem to be describing the comparison larlge in terms of the effect on Y, but I may be misunderstanding).

The other thing about chroma downsampling is that it's done for speed. If you can make it look just as good, the argument goes the other way: if we're going to crush our chroma high-frequencies a lot anyway, we might as well downsample the chroma because then that helps our decompression speed by halving the total decoded samples and looks just as good.

February 23, 2010 at 5:58 PM

Blogger cbloom said...

"Did you a/b downsampled vs. non-downsampled chroma with the exact same bit allocation?"

No, in each case I let it optimize the bit allocation to minimize delta E.

"The other thing about chroma downsampling is that it's done for speed."

Yeah, I should've mentioned that. Obviously if it's at all close you want to downsample. The EE398 paper has a silly line where they say like "downsampling is almost neutral so we don't do it". Wait, if it's neutral of course you DO do it. But I'm finding that it's not actually very close to neutral if you believe delta-E.

BTW I believe there's a possibility for a much higher quality chroma upsample (using the luma information) that would change this perhaps.

February 23, 2010 at 7:16 PM

Blogger won3d said...

You could do luma-guided upsampling of chroma (in-loop or not). I imagine it is similar but simpler than the RAW image demosaicing. I guess you suggest this, already.

What about higher levels of chroma downsampling? Or downsampling the two opponent color channels differently amounts I would guess that the red-green opponent channel is much more sensitive to downsampling than orange-blue -- consider how much the V channel is compressed in NTSC. You could probably get away with more than 2x there.

From a perceptual standpoint, even though you are less sensitive to orange-blue spatial details, it is actually more sensitive to gradations, so you might not want to quantize it as much. During a CES I went to, the Sony people were using blue gradients to demonstrate the lack of banding on their HDMI 1.3 Deep Color TVs. At least, I think I am remembering this correctly...

February 25, 2010 at 11:52 AM

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