We're sure you're right about what she said to Fromm in order to get his support. Question is does she believe it or is it just another con?
We understand your view and we share it. There's always a part of us that does try to see the good in people, or at least that spark that could result in a change for the better though. We've seen people change in the past. We always hope those who have fallen the furthest will change as well.
25 April 2011 at 18:37
Anonymous said...
"You're letting her off far too easily. No way Fromm would have supported and enabled her if she had not espoused white supremacist views."
I think you are really wrong. Even if she said certain things to get his support, you never know why she said those things and what the reasons were. I am currently in treatment for a mental problem which seems to be less severe than the things that girl went through. Still I am facing situations where I say things or react in ways that I cannot understand deep inside me, but I do have no control in these situations about what I do. I went to get professional help, from what you could read so far about this girl she never asked for that help from professionals.
These mental illnesses are really serious and mine often harms me more than others (I am not talking about physical pain I'm causing others, but things I say). People like Fromm are always using the same ways to lure victims into the world of hate by giving those people what they need. Victims of domestic violence, victims of parents divorce, social outsiders often just want some attention, somebody to listen or simply a friend. To get this, they are often willing to take actions or say things just to get attention of people like Fromm, often against their beliefs as long as they get something in return.
If people like this girl get into these situations and meet people like Fromm, all hell breaks loose. From the things the person said who claims to know that girl from back then, it is more than likely that she was alone, without family, without friends, sitting in jail and suddenly the nice old fella comes by and offers her an open ear. A shoulder to lean on. So even if she then said things like you hear them from the usual boneheads, there is a difference. You never know why she said them, you never know if she even knew what she was saying or doing, maybe not even able to control it.
Saying the ARC is 'letting her off far too easy' is very dangerous! Have you ever thought about the affect a public witch hunt can have to a person with a mental illness? In the end she is a human being and I am sure neither you nor the ARC collective would say "fuck it" if something would happen to her, she might even take her own life, not because of this but for unknown reasons and reasons that never get public. Would you say she was let off too easy in that case? Just because she said some white supremacist bullshit to impress Fromm when nobody else was there?
People like Fromm would support anybody that is of use for them, which you can clearly see after he was defending her again and again even when the idiots at stormfront questioned her white supremacist views. These people can be used as they offer themselves, so people like Fromm can get more attention. If they have no use for them, they simply drop them. You can see that not only with people like Fromm in Canada, but with ideological 'leaders' in the racist movement in a lot of countries as well.
I therefore think it is good that the ARC collective is considering to stop further stories and not get involved any further in this. Heck, Fromm could even use those stories to blame them in public if something should happen to her. He could stand there, look all sad and then with anger in his trembling voice ask why the ARC caused her this harm. Trouble people like this girl cannot get help from ARC or Fromm, they need professional, medical help. And stopping the stories on here, which she obviously is aware of considering her last facebook outbursts, is something that should be considered.
25 April 2011 at 23:29
Anonymous said...
"Last Article We'll Be Writing About Michelle Erstikaitis"
You have just made me a happy man, I stopped reading these somewhere around part 3. "Paul Fromm Goes Bat--*mark as read*"
25 April 2011 at 23:42
Anonymous said...
Hmm. Well, I suppose we have another mentally ill bonehead on our hands, I'll just file her with the rest... It's sad, but it makes her no less of a possible danger. Old Craig Cobb was as paranoid schizo as they come, but he still would have hurt a lot of people given the chance...
26 April 2011 at 01:36
Anonymous said...
It wouldn't surprise me if this whole thing was orchestrated by Fromm. Given what he's posted on Stormfront today, he might have even been the one to suggest Michelle volunteer for Moore's campaign. Now he gets to whine about her "political persecution" some more. She obviously did leave her profile open for you, which could well be another manipulation. Sort of suspicious that her friend wrote to you right before that happened, isn't it? Did this person also contact Fromm? I'm not sure why writing about her affiliation with Fromm is ARC's problem, when Fromm is the one who has tried so hard to brand her as a white nationalist and keep her in the public eye. She is the one who "outed" herself as Michelle Lisson on Fromm's FB group, so there was really nothing that ARC did there besides reporting on her own words.
No doubt, she is a damaged person who needs help, and I appreciate and agree with the decision to stop writing about her. But ARC did nothing wrong here.
26 April 2011 at 05:38
MacKenna said...
Cross posting this comment for consideration.
That Michelle has been designated a "dangerous offender" by the court is significant as the justice system rarely takes this route, even with the most egregious offenders. They are closely monitoring her, they say, for the next ten years because she is a serious risk.
All psychopaths have friends and acquaintances who sympathize with them. Most originate from abusive childhoods but not all do. Psychopaths are extremely manipulative. I'm sure Michelle is no exception.
To suggest she is "damaged" and needs help is true, but if she is a psychopath, as the court has judged her to be makes her dangerous. Not some sweet misunderstood girl who merely took a wrong turn.
She isn't just "hurting", she's missing a key ingredient. I would further guess Kevin Moore is likely to have had no clue who and what she is since she changed her last name. Perhaps he does now.
26 April 2011 at 07:24
Anonymous said...
Thank you very much for what you wrote.
26 April 2011 at 15:10
Anonymous said...
It's really hard to tell, between her and Fromm, who's manipulating who.
26 April 2011 at 20:37
UPDATE AND NOTE: Thanks for the heads up, BCL. Looks like the msm has covered the story now:
And Fromm, who is Johnny on the spot, has posted a missive on Stormfront about it (we'll actually post the direct link here, which is not something we would normally do but we don't have time to screen shot it now).
So, what now?
The title of the article as well as the end we state that this would be the last of the articles we would be writing on Michelle Erstikaitis. When the lead writer looked at her Facebook profile and it really hit home how damaged this young woman is and didn't want to cause further damage. We have spoken to a number of people in the meantime, people's who's opinions we value such as Dr. Dawg and others who are known only to us, who have suggested that we need to consider people's actions in the here and the now. Yes, people such as Michelle need help, but they are also fully responsible for their actions.
So, depending on the circumstances, there may be other aricles, however they will be of a much different tone. Mental illness isn't something that should be mocked so any article that may (emphesis on the word, "may") be published in the future will keep this in mind. The focus will also be less on Ms. Erstikaitis, and more on Paul Fromm who we contend is using someone who is sick to further his own ends, whatever those might be.
You see, as much as we value the opinions of our friends and people we care deply about on this matter, their views were not enough to make us change our minds about future articles. That credit goews to Fromm himself. He was far too quick to post the missive on Stormfront, almost like he had been waiting for the opportunity to do so. We aren't necessarily suggesting he orchestrated the whole affair -- he ain't bright enough for that -- but he sure was quick to spin the story to something that would advantage him while trying to pretend to sympathize with Erstikaitis.
So thank you Paul, for confirming everything we have written about you in one, single post on Stormfront.
****************
It's sometimes easy to be so focused on, "getting the story" that one can also forget the underlying humanity of the subject. Earlier today we received the following from a person who claims to have known Michelle Erstikaitis before she came to our attention:
Michelle comes from an abusive childhood, but I am sure you already gathered this. She was quiet and not what you would picture as a psychopath. I never heard her mention Timothy McVeigh and only twice in the year I lived with her did I witness her mention Paul Bernardo.
Now granted people can change a lot over the years and I have not seen nor spoken to her since we were teenagers, but I never saw even the slightest hint of racism in her. In fact she was kind and friendly to many of the other girls there which is why I was surprised to see her diagnosed as a psychopath. Michelle is very intelligent and I would not be surprised if she is acting however she is in order to manipulate peoples perceptions of her. When I was living with her she has very serious issues with her image, had anorexia and said a lot of things in order to inflate her image to others.
In the future when you write about her, or if you do please remember that this is a broken person who was abused and neglected by a lot of people including her own mother in ways that will turn your stomach. That doesn't excuse her behaviour but hopefully gives you and your readers some perspective on her. She is a real person.
We have said as such ourselves regarding this young woman; that she is someone who is damaged and in need of real help, and not the, "help" provided by the likes of Paul Fromm who appears to have been enabling her.
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We were also able to get a larger photo to confirm the candidate:
[Image]
So, cut and dry, right?
Hardly.
Here is Michelle in October 2008:
[Image]
That would be the NDP candidate who ran in the 2008 election in Toronto Centre, El-Farouk Khaki. And odd choice for someone whom Fromm has claimed as a long-time White Nationalist to be supporting in an election, much less canvassing for:
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Pictured with a Native Elder??? We move on.
[Image]
Seems to be a bit of a contradiction at the end, but perhaps we could chalk it up to disliking the Liberals more than the Conservatives.
We're going to make what might be an erroneous assumption that Michelle allowed her profile to be opened so we could take a peak. We don't know what her motives are, but what what we gleaned from what we see we can't help but feel a bit empty.
We had always believed that Michelle was using Fromm to get the public notoriety that she appears to have sought as a result of being in jail and her connection to the Bernardo murders. The alternative, while suggested to us, was something we considered but really never took to heart. However, we can't help but think that Michelle, someone who has been damaged, is the person who has been used. Worse still, we feel that we, in what we'll describe as our pissing contest with Fromm, used her as well.
This much is clear. Michelle isn't a White Nationalist, certainly not a long time member of the Movement as described by Fromm. Michelle is someone who appears to be very intelligent, very disturbed, and very desperate to find a place where she is accepted. While she has been a victimizer, she has also been victimized by far too many people who have come in and out of her life. We fear that we may be put in that latter category as well now.
There will be a discussion amongst the members of the Collective to determine what will be done with the articles that have already been written. Will they be archived, left as they are, or a link to this article posted at the beginning to provide some degree of context What can be said, likely for certain, is that unless there is significant reason to do so, another article about Michelle will not be posted here.
Michelle, we genuinely hope you get the help you need and a sense of peace. We hope that you will one day be whole again.
9 Comments
Close this window Jump to comment formYou're very nice, humane, kindly people, but the calls to Mahaffy's mother are enough for me to write off her humanity completely.
No doubt many White Power folks had bad childhoods. But they need to be confronted in the here and now.
You're letting her off far too easily. No way Fromm would have supported and enabled her if she had not espoused white supremacist views.
Nevertheless, I've posted a link to your article in an Update at my place.
25 April 2011 at 18:21
We're sure you're right about what she said to Fromm in order to get his support. Question is does she believe it or is it just another con?
We understand your view and we share it. There's always a part of us that does try to see the good in people, or at least that spark that could result in a change for the better though. We've seen people change in the past. We always hope those who have fallen the furthest will change as well.
25 April 2011 at 18:37
"You're letting her off far too easily. No way Fromm would have supported and enabled her if she had not espoused white supremacist views."
I think you are really wrong. Even if she said certain things to get his support, you never know why she said those things and what the reasons were. I am currently in treatment for a mental problem which seems to be less severe than the things that girl went through. Still I am facing situations where I say things or react in ways that I cannot understand deep inside me, but I do have no control in these situations about what I do. I went to get professional help, from what you could read so far about this girl she never asked for that help from professionals.
These mental illnesses are really serious and mine often harms me more than others (I am not talking about physical pain I'm causing others, but things I say). People like Fromm are always using the same ways to lure victims into the world of hate by giving those people what they need. Victims of domestic violence, victims of parents divorce, social outsiders often just want some attention, somebody to listen or simply a friend. To get this, they are often willing to take actions or say things just to get attention of people like Fromm, often against their beliefs as long as they get something in return.
If people like this girl get into these situations and meet people like Fromm, all hell breaks loose. From the things the person said who claims to know that girl from back then, it is more than likely that she was alone, without family, without friends, sitting in jail and suddenly the nice old fella comes by and offers her an open ear. A shoulder to lean on. So even if she then said things like you hear them from the usual boneheads, there is a difference. You never know why she said them, you never know if she even knew what she was saying or doing, maybe not even able to control it.
Saying the ARC is 'letting her off far too easy' is very dangerous! Have you ever thought about the affect a public witch hunt can have to a person with a mental illness? In the end she is a human being and I am sure neither you nor the ARC collective would say "fuck it" if something would happen to her, she might even take her own life, not because of this but for unknown reasons and reasons that never get public. Would you say she was let off too easy in that case? Just because she said some white supremacist bullshit to impress Fromm when nobody else was there?
People like Fromm would support anybody that is of use for them, which you can clearly see after he was defending her again and again even when the idiots at stormfront questioned her white supremacist views. These people can be used as they offer themselves, so people like Fromm can get more attention. If they have no use for them, they simply drop them. You can see that not only with people like Fromm in Canada, but with ideological 'leaders' in the racist movement in a lot of countries as well.
I therefore think it is good that the ARC collective is considering to stop further stories and not get involved any further in this. Heck, Fromm could even use those stories to blame them in public if something should happen to her. He could stand there, look all sad and then with anger in his trembling voice ask why the ARC caused her this harm. Trouble people like this girl cannot get help from ARC or Fromm, they need professional, medical help. And stopping the stories on here, which she obviously is aware of considering her last facebook outbursts, is something that should be considered.
25 April 2011 at 23:29
"Last Article We'll Be Writing About Michelle Erstikaitis"
You have just made me a happy man, I stopped reading these somewhere around part 3. "Paul Fromm Goes Bat--*mark as read*"
25 April 2011 at 23:42
Hmm.
Well, I suppose we have another mentally ill bonehead on our hands, I'll just file her with the rest...
It's sad, but it makes her no less of a possible danger. Old Craig Cobb was as paranoid schizo as they come, but he still would have hurt a lot of people given the chance...
26 April 2011 at 01:36
It wouldn't surprise me if this whole thing was orchestrated by Fromm. Given what he's posted on Stormfront today, he might have even been the one to suggest Michelle volunteer for Moore's campaign. Now he gets to whine about her "political persecution" some more. She obviously did leave her profile open for you, which could well be another manipulation. Sort of suspicious that her friend wrote to you right before that happened, isn't it? Did this person also contact Fromm? I'm not sure why writing about her affiliation with Fromm is ARC's problem, when Fromm is the one who has tried so hard to brand her as a white nationalist and keep her in the public eye. She is the one who "outed" herself as Michelle Lisson on Fromm's FB group, so there was really nothing that ARC did there besides reporting on her own words.
No doubt, she is a damaged person who needs help, and I appreciate and agree with the decision to stop writing about her. But ARC did nothing wrong here.
26 April 2011 at 05:38
Cross posting this comment for consideration.
That Michelle has been designated a "dangerous offender" by the court is significant as the justice system rarely takes this route, even with the most egregious offenders. They are closely monitoring her, they say, for the next ten years because she is a serious risk.
All psychopaths have friends and acquaintances who sympathize with them. Most originate from abusive childhoods but not all do. Psychopaths are extremely manipulative. I'm sure Michelle is no exception.
To suggest she is "damaged" and needs help is true, but if she is a psychopath, as the court has judged her to be makes her dangerous. Not some sweet misunderstood girl who merely took a wrong turn.
She isn't just "hurting", she's missing a key ingredient. I would further guess Kevin Moore is likely to have had no clue who and what she is since she changed her last name. Perhaps he does now.
26 April 2011 at 07:24
Thank you very much for what you wrote.
26 April 2011 at 15:10
It's really hard to tell, between her and Fromm, who's manipulating who.
26 April 2011 at 20:37