Google apps
Main menu

Post a Comment On: Understanding Society

"Liberalism and hate-based extremism"

5 Comments -

1 – 5 of 5
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even social movements soberly critical of another group to the highest degree probably lead to hatred somewhere on the 'social spectrum'. But there is (or should be) effort to distinguish these two qualities, as such criticism is essential for the 'progressive' element of speech Mill defends.

Can hate have a constructive, 'truth' at its core? I suspect it can, yet perhaps our knowledge of its (seeming) inherent corrosiveness justifies suppression. And what place do mass movements based on emotional vitriol have in the modern age? Point of contrast - problems like climate change are proving intractable through sober, debate (not that hate would solve this!).

One exception is hate applied to individuals. It lacks the risk exponential growth that can follow group stereotypes?


My understanding of Mills On Liberty, is that the 'pure liberalism' which he spends his time expounding is underpinned by tacit qualification : provided society is sufficiently stable to secure peace, and ensure the stability of other democratic institutions. Hence his famous remark justifying authoritarian rule for less developed societies. [this may be slightly different in emphasis to points in your post - society focused rather than individual/group, victim/perpetrator]

It has never occurred to me before, but Millian doctrine may not provide a strong commitment to the 2nd amendment. The constitution may be the major hurdle to both.

Interesting questions.

August 18, 2016 at 5:40 AM

Anonymous RS said...

"And, on the other hand, do the more restrictive legal codes against racism and hate-based organizations actually work in France or Germany? Or does the continuing advance of extremist groups there suggest that legal prohibition had little effect on RWE as a political movement?"

Good questions, but you're missing the most important one. Would hate speech laws actually be used as intended? I highly doubt it. The day laws against "hate speech" become acceptable in the United States is the day conservative forces will begin harassing mosques and black churches with legal threats doused in pink-washed claims of hate against women and homosexuals, even "anti-white/anti-Christian bigotry" if they're feeling particularly audacious. Take a look at the comments coming out of the alt-right about protecting gays and women and you can already see the groundwork being laid. Their own wellsprings of hate, of course, will be protected by legions of lawyers.

August 18, 2016 at 8:36 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

BLM is almost certainly the largest and most important "hate" group in the United States. BLM isn't just rhetorically violent, it inspires murderous attacks on police officers and civilians. Since BLM is PC, the establishment supports BLM, both financially and politically.

Since 9/11 (excluding 9/11), radical Islamiss have killed twice as many people in the U.S. as "right-wing extremists". However, somehow "RWE" is the real problem.

The definition of "hate" on display here amounts to anything the PC establishment doesn't like. Oppose Open Borders because Americans need jobs... That's "hate". Dare to suggest that crime rates across groups aren't equal... That's "hate". Point out that bad students make bad schools... That's "hate".

The facts don't matter. PC repression and censorship is the issue. "Hate" is just another word that has been weaponized to impose the PC agenda.

August 18, 2016 at 12:26 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

doesn't liberalism presuppose a commonality of goals at least vaguely? Surely it mandates that any result without democracy has to be resisted by any means? Also, can liberalism be tolerant of illiberalism? A case in point - a fully (or partially) covered muslim woman - should that be tolerated by "liberalism"? What if cult becomes bigger than tolerant portion of society?

August 18, 2016 at 1:24 PM

Blogger greg said...

The legal status of hate speech, and eventually hate action, is quite irrelevant.

What is relevant are the economic and social circumstances which motivate it. Most people who are doing well generally feel good, and do not bother with hate. When a segment of society, however, sees their share of the pie slipping away, they look for someone to blame.

Throughout history, societies which grow at a sufficient rate hold together with a unity of purpose. The haters are marginal, and may be kept marginalized. When the growth of societies slows, dissension arises and increases, both among the lower classes, and among the elites. Hate becomes endemic, and the different factions of the elites seek to recruit the lower classes to their cause.

It is the economic elites which are the origin of the lower classes misery. It is they who manage and control society, and are responsible for the allocation of resources. If the lower classes are suffering, it is because the economic elites are depriving them of the resources and the capital the lower classes need to prosper. However, The lower class, perceiving themselves weak compared to the elites, in particular the economic elite on which they perceive themselves to depend, displace their hatred on those weaker than themselves.

Eventually, these become the intellectual and political elites, which become objects of hatred, unless these elites, by making clear the origins of lower class misery, rally the lower classes to themselves. These elites must point out and coherently oppose the increasing exploitation of the entire society by the economic elites. Of this relentless exploitation, increasing inequality, indebtedness, economic stagnation, and the impoverishment of the lower classes, are symptoms.

The moral high ground is to oppose, rather than to passively allow, the destruction of all the people's liberties. The economic elite, having gained essential control of the material wealth of society, seek to plunder what remains: The political, social, and spiritual wealth of society. They seek only gain. They will not, they cannot stop, and there is nothing else for them to take. And for this, the speech and actions or the haters is but an instrument.

The legal status of hate speech is quite irrelevant, because hate is driven by, and funded by, the actions of the powerful, who are increasingly insulated from any law. If the larger economic and political situation is allowed to progress, in the end, no law will contain it. Instead, the law will be bent to the ends of hatred.


August 18, 2016 at 11:21 PM

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i>, <a>

Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author.

You will be asked to sign in after submitting your comment.
Please prove you're not a robot