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"Greenblatt on civilization"

5 Comments -

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Anonymous Howie Berman said...

Not to be picky, and as an aside from the main point; but isn't Lucretius's swerve random causality rather than self determination? How much does Greenblatt's swerve thesis stand in the Weberian tradition of the history of ideas?

December 22, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Blogger Dan Little said...

Howie, I think your point is valid. It seems that Epicurus believed that the possibility of uncaused natural events established the possibility of uncaused mental events. But intuitively "uncaused" doesn't seem to be the same as "free" or "self caused".

December 22, 2012 at 8:15 PM

Blogger Cameron Hoppe said...

I enjoyed your review, and I haven't read the book. My only quibble is that the rise of Roman Christianity, aka Catholicism, and the decline of classical thought should be seen in terms of correlation, not causation. The same is true of the rise of Islam and the Caliphate in the East. The common cause of all these problems was the collapse of the Western and eventually the Eastern Roman Empire, and the collapse in trade across the Mediterranean that went along with it.

The period of decline from about 300 AD to the dark age trough in 900 AD represented a loss of knowledge, population, technology, and rights across all of Europe. Consider this--in 300 AD, the population of the Western Empire stood at 22 million. In 650 AD the equivalent geographic region had an estimated population of 9 million. At the same time the works of the Greeks were being lost, literally thousands of Christian, gnostic, Jewish, and Pagan sects vanished from existence and memory. There was a loss and consolidation of resources and information throughout the empire, but it was because of loss of order and a common language in which to do business. When trade collapsed, every civilization around the Mediterranean became susceptible to famine and disease. Information transfer vanished. When a group died-off, as all groups eventually must, their knowledge died with them. We can hardly fathom a reality like this.

It is not that love of learning was suppressed. The real problem was that for hundreds of years each generation was smaller and worse-off than the one before, and there was nothing anyone could do about it. And let's be honest with ourselves--the collapse of Rome was primarily caused by internal politics and hyperbolic cultural growth, not religious strife.

December 23, 2012 at 8:11 AM

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December 23, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Blogger Dan Little said...

Thanks, Cameron. You've highlighted crucial material and demographic facts that help make sense of why and how ancient learning almost disappeared. What remains is the simple but important fact that the value system and thought of the ancients was all but extinguished and a political and philosophical regime built around Christianity took its place in Europe. And the later system was profoundly anti-humanist.

December 23, 2012 at 11:10 AM

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