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Post a Comment On: Understanding Society

"What is reduction?"

4 Comments -

1 – 4 of 4
Blogger p9 said...

"Another reason to be frustrated with "methodological reductionism" is the conviction that mid-level entities have stable properties of their own"

So where do those properties come from? I agree that we have to treat 'mid-level entities' as if they have stable properties of their own, but that cannot be the case. It can't even be close to being the case, because that would be tantamount to magic.

"He finds that eliminative reduction is a non-starter; virtually no scientists see value in attempting to eliminate references to the higher-level domain in favor of a lower-level domain."

And yet it seems to be the case that all phenomena *actually* reduce to elementary particles in just this way. It's a terrible explanatory strategy, but it appears to be the way the universe is: there is nothing but elementary particles, and any other position has to assume that there are some properties that are not determined by elementary particles - i.e., the things that actually exist and constitute everything. The alternative to eliminative reductionism is magic.

I'm not saying that we have to explain everything in terms of constituent elementary particles, because that cannot work. We cannot gather the data to do this and simply do not have the cognitive processing capability to handle it. But that's a human failing, not a problem with the concept. I'd say that even if we never do it, explanation must always be potentially relatable to smaller and smaller events until we reach the elementary particles that actually constitute everything.

September 25, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Anonymous Lee A. Arnold said...

I think that part of the problem is that social science is missing the proper fundamental unit. I think it is "relationship, in a context": two actors with two different types of connections at the same time: 1) the immediate transaction to each other, and 2) the lines of responsibility and judgment to their context, a shared understand based on prior agreement or their adoption of a pre-existing social construction ("we will have a market-style transaction" or "we are going to a party"). There are always two things to look at, epistemologically. This appears to be against eliminative reductionism, but a lot of very different structures can be examined in terms of a different scientific fundamental. This may only ever be a non-mathematical entity, however:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKXlqRIA92U&list=PLT-vY3f9uw3AcZVEOpeL89YNb9kYdhz3p

and search for "New Chart, for Descartes".

(Part of the problem is that modern social science must be couched in terms of math, but this may not always be appropriate, for formal reasons.)

September 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM

Anonymous Doug Blum said...

I think there are two issues here, one of which is conceptual, and the other which has to do with the researcher’s objectives.

The first has to do with how we approach the concept of emergence. As AJ claims, "I agree that we have to treat 'mid-level entities' as if they have stable properties of their own, but that cannot be the case. It can't even be close to being the case, because that would be tantamount to magic." As far as it goes this is correct; any complex entity can be deconstructed into its constituent parts and their interactions. That is precisely what we have in mind when we invoke the idea of emergence; i.e., qualitative changes which result when constituent parts interact. But at the same time, to use Dan’s phrase, resulting entities do indeed come to have “stable properties of their own.” “Stable” in this sense ought not imply that such properties have always existed in constant form. Instead properties are produced at a particular time through the interaction of parts (and may change again through subsequent interactions). Nevertheless, properties may well be stable in the sense of being concrete, consistent and definable. Second, insofar as we can conceive of entities as distinct things, it follows that we can talk of “their own” properties in the sense of inherent characteristics. But this in no way implies existential autonomy, since their properties are ultimately derivative from the interaction of parts. In short, there is no necessary contradiction between the two (seemingly opposing) assertions.

The second issue has to do with how we approach reductionism. For Dan, reductionism in the social sciences is the position that "the properties and dynamics of social entities need to be explained by the properties and interactions of the individuals who constitute them." The operative word in this sentence is “need.” AJ’s approach to reductionism is quite different: "I'd say that even if we never do it, explanation must always be potentially relatable to smaller and smaller events until we reach the elementary particles that actually constitute everything." The key word here is “potentially.”

I strongly agree with AJ that it is desirable to be able to relate meso-level properties to the discrete components and interactions which combine to produce them. Absent this ability, our explanations will always remain incomplete. Tracing events allows us to fully understand the mechanisms that underlie interaction, and thereby to gauge specific interaction effects. But once these properties have emerged and become (provisionally) stabilized, then, as Dan claims, “it isn't necessary to reduce those properties to their underlying constituents.” Instead, if what we wish to do is explain the causal significance of emergent properties themselves, “we can investigate those properties in their own terms, and then make use of this knowledge to explain other things at that level.”

This understanding indeed “takes reductionism out of the domain of a general philosophical principle and into that of a particular research heuristic.” It all depends on what one wants to achieve.

September 26, 2013 at 5:44 PM

Anonymous Lee A. Arnold said...

You have to consider however that the idea that "any complex entity can be deconstructed into its constituent parts and their interactions" and "absent this ability, our explanations will always remain incomplete" (Doug Blum), as well as the idea that the failure to do this is "a human failing, not a problem with the concept" (A.J West), are themselves unproven beliefs and intellectual prejudices. They may or may not be correct. Certainly they are not correct in regards to mathematics itself, which Gödel showed will always remain incomplete and inexhaustible (his words). We cannoot even decide whether numbers are metaphysical objects that exist independently of us (i.e. mathematical Platonism, which many mathematicians believe) or whether they are high-level human cognitive constructions with curiously penetrating, but not universal, applicability. In either case, Frege's idea that numbers are reducible to more basic logical constructions was discarded a long time ago, and numbers are not presently considered to be reducible to something else. Within physics, it is not even clear whether everything is "in principle" reducible to simpler physics: Stuart Kauffman's most recent book contains a chapter on physicists' current discussions of the evidence, and some are beginning to think that, for example, the Navier-Stokes equations are not reducible to particle motions. Irreducibility of higher-level things and concepts goes on and on. Social scientists are wise not to adduce magic, but that ought to include any fallback position that things are "in principle" reducible to smaller units, while avoiding other sorts of magical explanations as well.

September 26, 2013 at 8:35 PM

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