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"Neurath on sociology"

6 Comments -

1 – 6 of 6
Blogger Vanitas said...

Thanks for the posts on Neurath, which I have read eagerly with a somewhat critical eye. I'm not sure if you're just doing exegesis here, but I can't help but notice that you don't criticize Neurath at all on these matters. This is certainly unusual, for it is almost dogma that the sort of reductionist logical empiricism you're describing here was radically mistaken.

While I don't hold to the established dogma, I certainly see Neurath's conclusions in this post as a reductio ad absurdum against his overall approach. The idea that no psychologist can make a meaningful scientific statement unless it wholly concerns external behaviour is straightforwardly paradoxical. Psychology is the study of the mind, and the exclusion of "mentalese" would annihilate the discipline as we know it. I find the idea that Neurath was truly committed to engaging with scientific practice as it was to be a bit misleading, here, for clearly he would only validate such practice if it conformed to the ideals of logical empiricism.

To sum up an extraordinarily complex point (of which I do not doubt you are aware), there are obviously modes of understanding which are not strictly empirical-causal. The beauty of Weber's observation is not just that it will allow us more precise empirical prediction in the future (though it may do this), but that it facilitates a greater personal understanding of the concepts of protestantism and capitalism, previously taken to be unrelated.

For example, if a protestant-socialist reads Weber and reflects on his observations, she may be confronted with a novel conflict within her personal beliefs, and this conflict may facilitate her intellectual and personal growth. To insist that this sort of end is necessarily unscientific is simply to beg the question against Weber (and most practicing psychotherapists, by the way).

September 22, 2009 at 2:14 PM

Blogger Dan Little said...

Nick,

Thanks a lot for these good comments. You're right that I looked at the post as exegetical; there are of course very deep criticisms to make about the positions that Neurath advances. I'm trying to slog through a number of the classical positions on the status of the social sciences, and this is one I wanted to look at closely.

I've offered quite a few criticisms of positivist conceptions of the social sciences in earlier postings -- criticisms of the insistence on finding general laws, criticisms of the idea that social science ought to look like the natural sciences, and criticisms of the anti-causal conclusions that Neurath comes to.

I favor a "causal mechanisms" approach to social explanation, joined with a healthy pluralism about the nature of those mechanisms.

I agree as well with your point that the behaviorism that Neurath presupposes is indefensible; I posted on this subject under the category of "mental life" and several other topics.

September 22, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Blogger Vanitas said...

Ah, I see. Thanks Dan, I just started following your blog and perhaps should have looked into past entries.

I think your research is extremely interesting and illuminating, and thanks for sharing it.

September 22, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Blogger Jon Fernquest said...

Thanks for this post. Certainly though inspiring.

I didn't know the logical positivists dealt with sociology. Interesting, even if it was a deadend so to speak.

IMHO Sociology and historiography could borrow more ideas from the philosophy of science.For example, Bayesian philosophy of science provides a perfect critique of the common discourse among historians of trying to determine the one correct reconstruction of history.

With different Bayesian priors one gets different historical reconstructions which allows for multiple "may have happened" histories (in a Bayesian network) instead of one master "actually happened" Rankean history. This is a fruitful way to think of primary source deficient premodern Burmese history.

Ideas like Neurath's may have their principle import as intellectual history that inspires new ideas.

September 26, 2009 at 8:02 AM

Blogger Dan Little said...

Jon,

Thanks for these comments. I'm curious about how you're thinking about alternative constructions of a narrative based on different "priors". Is it something like this: We say the French Revolution was caused (in part) by a fiscal and governance crisis of the state in 1788-89. We then review conditions in the decade and assign counterfactuals to each of them: this factor could have developed differently, etc. We then try to assign a probability to the occurrence of revolution relative to what we know about 1780. And, perhaps, we judge that "revolution was a significant likelihood but less than 50%." Is it something like this that you're envisioning?

September 28, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Blogger Jon Fernquest said...

The Bayesian idea comes from writing several papers about premodern Burmese history which is information impoverished. Historians end up inserting a lot of speculation which should be made more explicit. Bayesianism could make these assumptions explicit. There is also a style of history that rips the other more speculative history to shreds (Aung-Thwin, Michael Vickery), essentially proving in a way that you can say nothing, which is also kind of unreasonable. Meanwhile none of the historians have a very sophisticated model of how premodern agrarian polities in general worked. This is fairly well studied and lots could be borrowed here as assumptions too. It's really Bayesian to fill out a dirth of information and perhaps provide clues as what sort of evidence is important to look for.

September 28, 2009 at 10:09 PM

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