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Post a Comment On: Rany on the Royals

"Gordon: Splash or Flash (In-the-Pan)?"

30 Comments -

1 – 30 of 30
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rany,

You're forgiven for the absence sine you've written about the #1 think on my mind with the Royals . . . Gordon's progression through the major leagues.

Thank you for easing my worried mind, for now.

Now, can we please start batting DeJesus third?

July 13, 2008 at 3:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You had good reasons for your absence Rany. Family is definitely (almost) as important as this blog. :)

July 13, 2008 at 3:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rany,

This was well thought out, and littered with heaps of real, tangible stats. Unfortunatly, this will fall on deaf ears.

I am convinced that Royals fans are happier miserable, happier when they can say "I knew it wouldn't work." To most of them being positive is too hard, and who can blame them?

I believe Poz wrote about how it is much easier to be negative. So untill Gordon hits .330 with an OPS over .900 and 25/110, he will always be considered a failure.

People don't want to get hurt by believing that Gordon is going to be great, so they refuse to do anything but be negative.

July 13, 2008 at 3:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I, for one, would like to stick up for Ryan Lefebvre. I think he gives the broadcast a personality without being a total ass (see Ken "The Hawk" Harrelson). I really don't think he's doing anything different than Denny has been doing for decades -- Lefebvre's just not nearly as apathetic while doing it.

July 13, 2008 at 5:20 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was struck by something watching today's game, noting a Mariner who's hitting a buck sixty. Namely, the Mariner who was selected one spot after Alex Gordon in the 2005 draft.

I'm still not worried about Alex. Everyone's bent out of shape because people compared him to George Brett and they want him to be George Brett NOW. He's probably never going to BE George Brett, and it's ridiculous for people to be deeming him a failure for it.

Heck, you've studied the draft probably more than anyone on the planet. Wouldn't he be a mild success in terms of the draft if he merely turns out to be Joe Randa? Or am I over-estimating the failure rate of prospects there?

July 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gordon was a slow starter when he was with Wichita and his second half was much better last year. He's shown some improvement so far so let's hope he has a big second half. Let's give him some time.... the guy has legitimate power as you see his home runs are not flukes.

July 13, 2008 at 7:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

jonfmorse:

if Gordon isnt one of the top three third basemans of all time he is a bust!!!!!!!!!11111111111

m_c analgoe

July 13, 2008 at 7:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think an interesting question to explore is other HOFers and/or All-Star calibur players that struggled so much against lefties to start their career. I'm just glad the Royals have dropped him in the order, he's not quite ready to hit third yet and he seemed to be getting more comfortable at the plate the last two games. The four day rest will hopefully result in a newly focused Gordon who will put up a 300 ave the rest of the way.

July 13, 2008 at 7:32 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

I also think Lefevbre is a good play by play guy. I think (possibly due to his dad) his knowledge of the intricacies of the game is beyond most others in the industry.

Paul is good, but I really like listening to Frank White btw.

July 13, 2008 at 7:42 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

Also, good timing on this post. A friend at work and I were having this discussion the other day: Who has had a more dissappointing season - Gordon or Butler? We both voted that Gordon has been a bigger dissappointment. Billy Rae is a couple years younger, and has some time, but many of Gordon's contemporaries have had greater success (ie. Longeria, Wright, Zimmerman) thus far.

I bet Twinkie fans feel the same about Delmon Young as Royals fans feel about Gordo.

July 13, 2008 at 7:45 PM

Blogger Travis Wright said...

Great Scott! That was some great statistical analysis.

Maybe if we weren't so quick to christen these players "The Next Big Thing", these players could mature into their own.

Instead we have bobblehead night for Sophomore ball players and jersey night for a 21 year old kid.

Let them mature, lets not set them up for failure with our lofty expectations.

July 13, 2008 at 11:12 PM

Blogger Nathan said...

You know, Gordon totally looks like Jim from the office, and, if these stats hold out, he'll be EVEN MORE like Jim from the Office.

So long as we are willing to equate playing good baseball to getting with Pam Beasley.

July 13, 2008 at 11:23 PM

Blogger ChasingMoney said...

The guy I cant help comparing him to is Jeff King. King was the 1st pick in the '86 draft and a 3rd baseman. And boy did he struggle as a rookie. He didnt start to put it together til he was 28 and even in his prime he was just okay. He did flash a little power in his 30's but he finished his career with a 99 OPS+. I certainly hope Alex can better that,

July 14, 2008 at 7:42 AM

Blogger Unknown said...

Rany,
The one dissturbing thing I see with Gordon is his high k:pa rate. Right now Gordon k's in about 22% of his plate appearances. Unfortunately I see more Pat Burrell in Gordon than I do Craig Biggio.

Now having said that, Biggio had a k rate of 14% for his career. If Gordon had a k rate of 14% so far for his career, he would have a batting average of close to 0.280 for his career. That looks a lot better for a "sure fire prospect"! I will not have faith in him until I see more consistant contact.

July 14, 2008 at 8:57 AM

Blogger ASMR Review said...

Thanks, I thought I was the only one that thought Ryan was getting a bit annoying and self-righteous this year. Tone it down Ryan! We loved you before!

July 14, 2008 at 9:30 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

To me, the step backward that Butler seems to have taken this season is way more alarming than any concerns about Gordon's development.

I think many of us expect Butler to be the better hitter of the two - and I think he doesn't even resemble the hitter he was last season.

Tell me again what we are paying Mike Barnett for?

July 14, 2008 at 10:28 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The line about Folger's Crystals
makes up completely for the long
time between articles here. I'm
still laughing!

If Alex Gordon only turns out to be as good as Joe Randa, it would
be disappointing but not the most
horrible thing I could think of.
Joe was pretty good, but not the
cornerstone of the team. We would need to find someone else for that.
I don't think that someone is here
at the moment.

July 14, 2008 at 10:52 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rany,

Any thoughts on the starting rotation? I think we all thought at the beginning of the season that the Royals now have a contending rotation, but now I'm not so sure.

July 14, 2008 at 10:54 AM

Blogger Nathan Hall said...

jon in dallas,

Do I understand you correctly in saying you'd be unhappy if Gordon hits like Pat Burrell?

July 14, 2008 at 12:52 PM

Blogger Nathan Hall said...

Sticking with the off-topic announcer theme, I like all three of Ryan, Split and Frank. However, it really gets on my nerves when they invariably get worked up over every player who hits the ball to the opposite field. White worries me in particular, because he served as a coach in 2A and likely represents the philosophy of the franchise, rather than just TV talking points.

This obsession with making hitters like Butler focus on the opposite field is just baffling. Why is a hit to the opposite field more praiseworthy than pulling the ball for power? I know some hitters get pull-happy and need to be coached out of it, so that they can take advantage of where every pitch is placed. But it seems to me that the Royals are almost push-happy, far on the other side of the spectrum. Opposing pitchers pitch our guys inside, and fielders play almost every hitter besides Guillen and maybe Gordon the other way. There's a reason for this, and I'm beginning to think it's an organizational problem with our coaching philosophy. We're trying to get everyone on the team to hit like a slick-fielding 2nd baseman--The White-Grudzielanke mold--which is fine for slick-fielding 2nd basemen but doesn't work out so well for left fielders and DHs.

July 14, 2008 at 1:01 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

nathan,

Absolutely I would hate for Gordon to be the next Pat Burrell. This year is by far Burrell's most productive year. Ask fan's in Philly what they think of their "golden boy". Here is his career line: 0.259/0.370/0.489. That is not something you would want for Gordon.

Expectations for Gordon were probably in the line of 0.285/0.365/0.535. The fact of the matter is that there is NO WAY we can expect David Wright/Chase Utley numbers if he continues to stike out in 23% of his PA's.

Up until this year Pat Burrell was widely considered to be a bust.

July 14, 2008 at 2:35 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

nathan,

Not to get too technical, but when a player becomes "pull happy"; he tends to open up his hips too early and thus reduces the amount of torque thru the zone. An opposite field approach is derived out of the notion that if you are trying to drive the ball the other way you will keep your hips and front shoulder loaded and do not release their energy too soon.

Hitting inside pitches while adhering to the opposite field approach is simply shortening the path of your hands to the ball (keeping them closer to your body). If a player becomes pull-happy, major league pitchers recognize this and, for the most part, give them pitches that they roll over to the ss/3b. There are not many hitters in the world who can pull an outside pitch with authority. This select list includes the likes of Pujoles, Thome, Sheffield, Bonds, Vlad, and probably a few others. The thing that makes those hitters so great is that they can also drive that outside pitch the other way.

July 14, 2008 at 2:46 PM

Blogger ChasingMoney said...

Burrell was only considered a bust to picky Phils fans. He hit 37 homers his 3rd year and his 120 OPS+ for his career is higher than Carlos Beltrans. I would love for Gordon to be Burrell 2.0

July 14, 2008 at 3:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Other names for comparison/optimism.

Steve Garvey
Howard Johnson

Both were first-round picks who struggled early.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/garvest01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsho01.shtml

July 14, 2008 at 5:46 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would be quite happy if Gordon turned out to be Pat Burrell (with better defense at third). The guys OPS+ the last 4 seasons:

128
122
127
151

Thats pretty darn good production.

July 14, 2008 at 7:25 PM

Blogger Phil said...

Lets be honest with ourselves for just a moment. No person that takes the time to read RotR and the subsequent comments could possibly a pessimist. One would have to be certifiably crazy to read the thousands of posted words only to come to the simple conclusion that the Royals are garbage. I will agree that it is easier at times to be negative than optimistic, however I believe the appropriate descriptor for the readers of these words is pragmatism.

It is not a matter of negativity/pessimism that brings out the frustration with Gordon's production. It's simply a matter of fact that Gordon is our highest touted prospect. It was fact that he showed lots of promise through college and the minors. It is fact that he is playing poorly. It is also fact that he appears to show little enthusiasm on the field (true or not).

As a paying Royals fan who has endured years of heartache not worth repeating, I feel it is my right to expect a lot out of our players (not just Gordon). Our draft day helplessnes of the past 20 years has be well documented throughout sports media (I believe we've made several top 10 worsts lists). And when our best prospect (arguably in more than a decade) shows serious signs of flop-dom I also feel it is within my right to raise a voice of concern.

Rany, thanks for the post. It was perfect. Somewhere in your 4,500 words, I felt consoled. Keep up the great work, and here's to hoping Gordon becomes half the player we all dream him to be.

July 14, 2008 at 10:47 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like the HoJo comparison. Also, what about Phil Nevin. 1st pick, fought through lots of early struggles.

July 15, 2008 at 3:00 PM

Blogger Nathan Hall said...

jon,

If Gordon hits like Pat Burrell I'll be thrilled. A player with Burrell's bat and Gordon's defensive and baserunning ability is a borderline HOF candidate.

As for pulling vs. pushing, I certainly agree that players need to be able and willing to hit to the opposite field when that's the best way of handling a given pitch. I'm also no expert on hitting mechanics, and I sure hope the team employs somebody who is. However, I do know that most of the great hitters in the game pull pitches for power with some regularity. The Royals desperately need power, and I'm afraid they may be coaching it out of their hitters. We need a few of those Pujols/Vlad/Bonds type hitters of our own. The Royals' future depends on the idea that Butler and Gordon, at least, can approach that level. Besides, they don't necessarily need to pull outside pitches with authority. Inside pitches and ones right down the middle would be fine.

Succinctly: great hitters hit to the opposite field. But they generally hit everywhere else, too.

July 15, 2008 at 8:58 PM

Blogger Shelby said...

Mickey Mantle struggled early too, right? Right?

And please tell me Tony Gwynn struggled and was sent down to the minors for a stint like Butler was.

July 16, 2008 at 8:25 AM

Blogger Antonio. said...

Please don't group White and Grudzielanek when talking about hitters.

July 23, 2008 at 8:54 PM

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