Google apps
Main menu

Post a Comment On: Rany on the Royals

"Reasons For Optimism."

34 Comments -

1 – 34 of 34
Blogger fuzzyredtop said...

Why am I not surprised that I agree with pretty much all of this article? I've been accused online of being your lackey (and, once, of being you) pretty regularly over the years. I can even emphasize with your "turd in the puchbowl" feelings after this trade - my views weren't to popular from the folks drinking the "we got an ace" Kool Aid. I am hopeful, and I understand the trade, but I'm just not a big fan of trading a big piece of the future for what is realistically a chance to compete for second place over the next two years. I'm also hopeful that DM will make additional moves if they are available (more meaningful moves than Kotteras - say finding a RF or a 2B), but absent that, it looks like the trade was a big cost to acheive medicority.

January 28, 2013 at 9:45 AM

Comment deleted

This comment has been removed by the author.

January 28, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Comment deleted

This comment has been removed by the author.

January 28, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Blogger John said...

I think the part where you pointed out the strength of the Royals' player development system is exactly why they were willing to trade Wil Myers. They probably viewed Myers as a productive bat on the left end of the defensive spectrum, and are confident that they can draft and develop guys like that on a regular basis.
Back in their heyday, the Blue Jays used to have a farm system this productive, and they would trade good-looking prospects every year for proven talent to bolster the big-league team. They were never much concerned about what those guys did after their trades, and didn't have to answer for it because the Blue Jays themselves were winning. The farm system, and then the Blue Jays, finally broke down about five years after Bobby Cox left for Atlanta, where he hired a guy named Dayton Moore...
Incidentally, people shouldn't be so hard on Grandal about the PED stuff. If you'd been getting your butt kicked by Beowulf and Wiglaf for the last thousand years or so, you'd take some steroids and HGH, too!

January 28, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Blogger Charles Winters said...

I still am hoping that Dayton can get us Michael Bourn.

January 28, 2013 at 1:16 PM

Blogger Mike said...

Nothing is ever permanently scrubbed from the internet: http://web.archive.org/web/20091231210706/http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/07/02/stupid-is/

January 28, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Blogger fuzzyredtop said...

John - the problem with the Rs' faith in their development system is that they don't have an OF prospect who has played above low A ball, now that they traded Myers. A few 4th/5th OF types, maybe, but only Starling and Bonifacio seem to have legit ML starter potential. And, unfortunately, faith won't hit or field much better than Frenchy over the two year window DM just bought into. FWIW, there's not a lot of potential for an internal 2B replacement, either.

BTW, not only did I mis-spell Kottaras in my inital post, I also used "to" instead of "too." Someone get the wet noodle and start lashing.

January 28, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Blogger fuzzyredtop said...

Doh! I also used emphasize instead of empathize! I blame it all on Monday mornings (and DM, of course).

January 28, 2013 at 1:40 PM

Blogger tookee said...

It wouldn't have been so painful waving goodbye to Myers if it was anybody but Frenchy taking his place in RF and the lineup. I agree that Davis is the real linchpin here - not only could he be a real plus as a 4th starter, but it may push Hochevar to the bullpen where, as Rany mentions about starters becoming good relievers, he could cut loose with the only two good pitches he's got and become an effective set up man.

January 28, 2013 at 11:10 PM

Blogger Antonio. said...

I love your work, Rany, but this was about the hardest article of yours to read and it's not about the article itself, but more about you forcing yourself to write something you don't believe. As an aside, if you're right about the trade, it could very well cost Moore his job, which means it could very well cost the men that made Myers a Royal their job.

January 29, 2013 at 8:41 AM

Blogger Unknown said...

The "we got an ace" koolaid is no more laced than the "whole damn exchequer" koolaid and the "responsible for the destruction of Earth" simile jello shots. Plenty of talent evaluators don't think Myers is a franchise cornerstone. Time will tell.

January 29, 2013 at 9:49 AM

Blogger Timothy said...

Love the article as always Rany, even if I don't much agree with it.

But if you read these I want to point something out for anyone who wants to read Joe Po at his meanest: You can never "Scrub" anything from the internet

January 29, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Blogger Kenneth said...

Disappointed. After an article titled moving on, you clearly are not. Why not an article about Frenchy's struggles in 2012 and how he will have a 2011 year again for optimism ?

What about a Bruce Chen article? I was working for a company that owned great seats, 1st row behind Royals dugout. End of the game Chen rolls a ball on the dugout top right to my little tykes. Awesome. Best part was Billy Butler had thrown my spawn a ball already so they gave it to a little girl next to us so she could have one. What a happy ending. Because of Chen.

Could a great guy and someone who has proven to be an above average pitcher for the Royals really be out of rotation spot ?

January 29, 2013 at 5:51 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

Great article. I promise I took away more from it than an awesome Flash Gordon reference. XD

January 29, 2013 at 9:04 PM

Blogger Antonio. said...

Which talent evaluators don't think Myers is a cornerstone talent?

January 29, 2013 at 9:37 PM

Blogger McGoldencrown said...

Fwiw, the astute John Sickels just ranked KC's farm #21. That is pretty bad regardless of what we gave up in the Shields trade.

With the newly governed inability to overslot (Myers, Lamb, Brickhouse, etc), it seems a bit presumptuous to assume replacing Myers is an eventual forgone conclusion or that KC will ever get close to the top #5 again.

Oh yeah, no overpaying IFA's anymore either (Mondesi, Hernandez, Cuthbert, etc)...If you are a top Dominican prospect and the money is all the same, which org would you rather play for, the Dodgers, Yankees or Royals?

Yes, I know, its a rhetorical question.

January 30, 2013 at 5:37 AM

Blogger fuzzyredtop said...

Really, Kenneth? So you want an article about how Frenchy will have a return to 2011 as a sign of optimism. And what would that be based on? Just to use OPS as a quick and dirty basis, Frenchy's last 5 years are:

2012: .665
2011: .805
2010: .683
2009: .732
2008: .653

In other words, Frenchy's 2011 is the outlier, not 2012. Put another way, there's a difference between justifiable optimism, and blind optimism.

January 30, 2013 at 11:40 AM

Blogger twm said...

The jump in velocity scares me a bit too. My first thought was "oh no, his elbow is about to blow". My second was, "or maybe he is involved in the Miami PED scandal." Paranoia is such a good fan quality.

January 30, 2013 at 7:22 PM

Blogger sedated ape said...

Can you name one of those talent evaluators?

January 31, 2013 at 6:21 AM

Blogger fuzzyredtop said...

And whether or not Myers is a franchise cornerstone had nothing to do with the post he was commenting on (mine). My concern is, and always had been, about the two year window that came with the deal. If the Rs make the playoffs during that time, I can live with trading Myers, even if he becomes the guy MOST talent evaluators think he will be. But even after the trade, that isn't a very likely scenario, and it appears that DM isn't planning to do anything else to make the team a legitimate playoff contender.

January 31, 2013 at 10:01 AM

Blogger Michael said...

I foresee a "Reasons for Pessimism" article coming next. Although at the beginning of a new season who really wants to be the wet blanket?

January 31, 2013 at 9:46 PM

Blogger Nathan said...

I can't link it right now because the BP site is down, but I remember in the Royals' top-ten prospects (before the trade), there was some talk of Myers as a good-not-great MLB player. The sort of player who is productive but can be limited by excellent pitching.

February 2, 2013 at 5:18 AM

Blogger Nathan said...

With my anonymous comment, I was just saying that Royals fans are evaluating this trade as if Myers was the whole farm system and a guaranteed star. It's not so. The "window" has been pushed back often enough in the last 20 years; it'll be fun to finally watch a team that's actually trying to win baseball games instead of just farm-system accolades.

February 2, 2013 at 5:23 AM

Blogger Antonio. said...

That was never the point of anything. And a team full of former farm system stars trying to win will be fun...seems rather odd to make a statement such as yours considering where all of those players came from. And we were not close and then used a Top Three prospect to get a good pitcher to put us over the top.

February 2, 2013 at 6:54 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

I love a great farm system, but it's a means to an end, not an end in itself. What makes you think we're so far away from contention? There are five playoff spots per league starting this year. The Royals project as a better team in 2013 than in any other season since 1994. This is worth a shot.

February 3, 2013 at 2:55 AM

Blogger Michael said...

People forget we play in a weak division where the Tigers are the only real threat. But there is no way in either money or prospects that we could spend our way to being better than them on paper. Thankfully this game is played on grass though, not paper, and I believe they have a decent shot. All I'm asking for is meaningful games in September, and the excitement of checking box scores in the morning. It would be great to make the playoffs, for sure, but let's play meaningful games after the All-Star game first.

February 3, 2013 at 11:04 AM

Blogger Jayboid said...

I am looking for just a couple of weeks where one of our young stars well stars. Just rakes it, making pitching a secondary thought.

Butler came close, but

Been so so long around here, but other fans enjoy a Pujols (insert slugger name) week, or name the star. How about a 3 HR game sometime??

How about our upcoming hitters making another team scurry relief pitchers in the 5th inning?

Some 9-5 wins after a 2-1 game for instance. How about Shields having an off game with the bullpen getting the 7 inning relief win. Then Santana, Wade, pitching a couple of 3-1 wins.

In EARLY MAY

How about a replacement player whom makes a case to stay as a starter. How about a young pitcher breaking through.

I dream too much.

February 3, 2013 at 11:22 AM

Blogger Antonio. said...

"All I'm asking for is a meaningful game in September..."
"A 'weak' division where the Tigers [the AL Champion] are the only real threat..."
"The Royals project as a better team in 2013 than in any other season since 1994..."

1. Don't sell yourself short.
2. Tigers take the division, leaving the Royals eligible for one of two spots. Can these Royals beat the Rays, Yankees, Orioles, Angels, A's, Rangers, White Sox? Because that's what it's going to take.
3. Pretty irrelevant since you could say that about the last two teams as well and doesn't do anything to take the competition into play.

Trading Myers away makes since if you're getting Shields to put you over the top (ie not a 72-win team that you need a lot of hopes and prayers and then some to make a jump to real contention) or if you're trading him for a young pitcher that you can have longer than some imagined two year window.

February 3, 2013 at 11:46 AM

Blogger Michael said...

Your argument makes sense if that were the only move they'd made prior to the deal. But it wasn't. Before this deal I was picking them at about a .500 team. Now I put them at about 86-88 wins, and that puts you in the discussion for the playoffs.

If you want to be a fan of an always "Wait till next year" team, theres always the Cubs. The Rpyals are done "Waiting till next year."

February 3, 2013 at 8:24 PM

Blogger Antonio. said...

If you really believe that, then this conversation isn't going to go anywhere and I have nothing else to say.

February 3, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Blogger fuzzyredtop said...

What Antonio said.

Not that it's impossible this team wins 86-88 games, but it would take a lot more "better than projection" performances than "worse than projection" ones. Almost any non-biased source suggests that 82-84 wins is closer to the Rs projection. Considering the possibility that they do better than that, or that 84 wins is enough to make the playoffs, it gives the Rs about a 15% chance.

Basically, all of this offseason's moves put the Rs in a position where they have a legitimate shot to finish second, and don't have to get quite as lucky as they would otherwise to make the playoffs. That's better than they've done in the past, but not something that I would trade the best hitting prospect in baseball (that's hitting, not "position player"), a likely #4 starter, and a couple of decent "lottery ticket" players to accomplish - not for a 2 year window.

Seems like there are a lot of people who are happy to settle for mediocrity. It may be an improvement over just plain bad, but it really shouldn't be the goal.

February 4, 2013 at 9:44 AM

Blogger Mark said...

Okay, I appreciate Rany's reasons for optimism, even if many posters here do not (and maybe he doesn't either). Most of us agree that the team is better for this season, but probably not yet good enough. Moore might even agree.

Here's a fun exercise--play manager with the batting order as it now looks (and yes, I use Dyson instead of Frenchy). Then, substitute Giancarlo Stanton in right. He's unhappy, and the Marlins have to know they could be ruining him as well as inviting a locker room problem. They seem to be aiming for 2015 (if they're trying at all), so I'd engage them in a discussion of several lottery tickets as opposed to a couple of top ten or top twenty prospects (though I would seriously consider that as well--all in). I am NOT assuming David Samson and his people are stupid (though Loria is greedy and a lousy owner), nor am I some goof dreaming of trading Hochevar for Stanton. I am saying there are legitimate off-the-field issues here that work to leverage a trade. We still have depth in the minors, and Moore and company seem to be committed to this season.

Finally, an acquisition like Stanton would really help salve the loss of Wil Myers as well as redefine the race for the division title.

February 5, 2013 at 10:42 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

Rany, I had to come here and comment. I just heard Ryan Lefebvre interview Hoch. RL actually had the gall to suggest that Hoch's problem MIGHT be that he is TOO good! The question went something like this: I remember a month a few years ago where you had an 80-pitch complete game. I thought, "OK, he's going to be a pitch-to-contact guy now." Then you struck out 13 a few weeks later, and I thought, "OK, he's going to be a power pitcher." Could part of your problem be that you have never figured out what kind of pitcher you should be?

I know the guys paid by the Royals have to go easy, but c'mon! That's a little much. Anyways, I thought it was pretty funny.

February 7, 2013 at 7:47 PM

Blogger Charles Winters said...

Michael Bourn to Indians. Royals finish 4th.

February 11, 2013 at 11:30 PM

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i>, <a>

This blog does not allow anonymous comments.

Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author.

You will be asked to sign in after submitting your comment.