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Post a Comment On: Rany on the Royals

"Trade Time."

40 Comments -

1 – 40 of 40
Blogger Eric said...

Concerning the free agent contracts with options. Isn't it a bit of a safety net for a player? If you come here for this salary, you'll get everyday playing time, and here's what you make. If you over perform, you get traded to a contender, and have a shot at a raise after the season. If you perform near the salary on the option, we're more likely to sign you because we'll have to weigh the salary vs. paying the option buyout. If you under perform, you'll get a nice little bump in pay at the end of the season and a pat on the back.

July 15, 2011 at 1:40 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

I would like to see Melky and Frenchy get traded for some decent propects. Dyson and Cain deserve some time.

Aviles needs to be brought up as well, so I hope Getz/Wilson will get traded.

I also wonder if Dayton could get anything for Clint. It doesn't seem like he's anything more than insurance at this point.

July 15, 2011 at 2:02 PM

Blogger The Mad Rabbi said...

Rany: How do the defensive projections at CF match up between Melky, Dyson and Cain?

July 15, 2011 at 2:44 PM

Blogger George said...

Chen is a Type B free agent, so he has that value behind him that Francis does not have.

July 15, 2011 at 7:33 PM

Blogger Royals said...

Hosmer is a f'ing beast!

July 15, 2011 at 10:25 PM

Blogger KHAZAD said...

Dayton Moore said the other day that the Royals may stand pat and that the division was still in play.

I hope this was just a little purposeful misinformation so that other clubs don't think the Royals an easy target. Otherwise we need the MIT dude to explain the math to him.

I see Betemit as a virtual guarantee, with very little in return.

What do you think Melky would get in arbitration? I would not mind having him back if they would move him to a corner (They promised him centerfield this year.), but I think he would bring the most return of any player. I think they will keep Frenchy instead. They want to use the mutual option.

The starters mentioned will really depend on whether there is interest from other teams. I don't think they will make a salary dump with their lack of starting pitching.

A Getz trade might be the only way we would get to see Giovotella, as neither player can play the left side of the infield and be a utility guy. (Though if Getz had the fielding chops, his skillset at the plate and on the basepaths translates well to a utility role) They will need someone who can back up that left side in a pinch, so Aviles might get a last hurrah after a Betemit trade.

I think a there may be a couple of reliever deals, but probably not until the off season.

July 16, 2011 at 5:23 AM

Blogger Kansas City said...

Great column. I think the Royals should trade most of the veteran guys mentioned (except perhaps Melky, who is intriquing with the right to bring back next year - if his half year is not a fluke, we obviously should keep him) for the best prospects (even long shots) they can get for each one. Keep the young pitchers, unless there is an absolute steal availalbe.

Butler is interesting. A trade now is probably precluded as trading low (but don't teams know he can hit?), but he is unhappy as a DH and may never take hitting to the next level.

The main reason I'm here is to post the following quote by Yost about Butler in the morning paper and ask my more knowledgable stat friends here to assess the quote - I know RBI's are a flawed statistic, but the Yost statement seems somewhat logical -- or is it wrong:


"It’s just more of a mind-set. I’d much rather have Billy hitting .270 with 25 homers and 120 RBIs than hitting .310 with lower run production.”

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/15/3016868/butler-says-hes-still-trying-to.html#ixzz1SHhCjNIU

July 16, 2011 at 11:38 AM

Blogger Kansas City said...

Why are the Royals number so bad on defensive efficiency and rtot (team zone fielding).

They are 13 of 14 in the AL in both categories, .687 in DE and -19 in rtot. Tampa Bay is .724 and league average is .699.

July 16, 2011 at 12:45 PM

Blogger mark said...

Obviously, its your call but I hope you do address "Kansas City"'s question on the bad defensive numbers the Royals are putting up. It seems like every five minutes they are getting an outfield assist or Alcides Escobar is doing something positive. I thought big Hoss was going to help this situation out. I would think that there might be interest in Billy Butler in the National League where he might be more valuable. Thanks, for your blog.

July 16, 2011 at 4:07 PM

Blogger Chris said...

Rany, you and others keep on mentioning about Soria being a starter. The man has started five games in his career in the minors and majors. Is there some stat I'm missing somewhere? And yes, I realize he had a perfect game in the Mexican league but Armando Galarraga basically had one in the MAJORs and I sure as heck don't want him starting for us. I'm as big a fan of you as anyone but this one has NEVER made sense to me.

July 16, 2011 at 11:26 PM

Blogger Jack Campbell said...

How in the world is the Royals' defense so lousy? Let's go around the diamond: 1B - Hosmer was supposed to a be a plus defender, no? 2B - If Chris Getz isn't playing above average defense, what exactly is he doing for the Royals again? SS - plus defense there (supposedly plus plus defense). 3B - Moose is probably struggling. But he still has that arm, right? C - See Getz comment above...If Treanor isn't giving us above average defense what's he giving us? LF - Gordon's range is fine and his arm is a 'weapon'. CF - Melky's below average here. RF - The beacon of Frenchy's light's out defense in RF shines so brightly, I can see it from New York.

By my count, we have exactly two below average defenders out there--Moose and Melky--and I'm not sure about Moose, but's nice like Melky is horrifying in Center. A sub-par CF and 3B have somehow torpedoed our entire defense?

Here's the part where I question defensive statistics.

July 17, 2011 at 9:50 AM

Blogger Jack Campbell said...

..."but it's not like Melky is horrifying in center"...

July 17, 2011 at 9:52 AM

Blogger Jack Campbell said...

Two comments regarding the idea to trade our young relievers:

(1) I remember once feeling that building a bullpen was something that could easily be done year-in, year-out--that Dayton Moore's forte was bullpens--and that relievers were therefore expendable. Granted, they comprise probably the least valuable spots on the roster - in terms of WAR or any other metric - but the result of that experiment was that we gave away Leo Nunez who went on to be a closer (not a great closer, but a closer nonetheless) and Ram Ram for position players who flamed out spectacularly. The point here is not what we got in return, but that the assumption that a good bullpen can be built overnight turned out to be false. After trading those two, our bullpen started costing us games until this new wave of youngsters arrived. There's no guarantee that Herrera and Chapman (Keating?) will succeed in the majors. We do have excess, but Crow is probably about to move to the rotation, which would be mean trading TWO of these guys would really deplete the only strength on our team. We might well not be able to rebuild it when the other parts of the team come into place.

(2) I agree--obviously--that we need starting pitching badly. But I'm not convinced any team would trade starting pitching with upside for relievers (on the other hand, we did snag Felipe Paulino). As far as trading a couple of relievers for other positions, while I understand we're currently fielding a suboptimal lineup, I'm not certain we're dying for talent, say, up the middle. You've got Cain about to claim his spot in center, and is the jury out that Alcides is the Royals' SS going forward? Seems pretty close to a done deal to my eyes. That leaves 2b and C. I'd gladly take a C. I guess Giovotella is no sure thing either, but we have a number of prospects that might fit at 2B, including Mike Aviles who is hitting well at AAA right now. Gordon's your LF, and Myers looks like the heir to RF. Look, an organization can always use talent, I'm just not sure that we're screaming for position players right now. I think we're screaming for SP's. So unless you can convince some team to give you a SP prospect in return for your relievers, I say you stand pat (just talking about the relievers here).

July 17, 2011 at 10:30 AM

Blogger Kansas City said...

Jack Campbell raises a very good question about defensive statistics. I think Getz probably is below average. But still, how can we be almost at the bottom of defensive efficiency and zone rating? I thought with large enough sample size defensive efficiency is accurate? Is half a season not enough? There were like 3,000 balls in play. And Tampa Bay and Seattle are at the top, generally recognized as the best defensive teams.

I don't like trading young bullpen pitchers, unless you really get a great deal. I could justify Coco Crisp as being worth a trade several years ago. Why not give virtually all of them a chance at starting? I think this distinction between starters and relievers may be overdone. The idea is to get guys out. If you can do it in relief, why can't you do it as a starter. It is not like the starters in MLB are guys who would be, or ever have been, stars out of the bullpen. Especially now, with the season gone, the Royals should be giving about any pitcher with major league talent a chance to start.

July 17, 2011 at 11:50 AM

Blogger Michael said...

KC, some of those guys would be exposed big time as starters. Tim Collins wouldn't make it at all as a starter. Some just don't have the repetoire. It takes at least 3 good quality pitches to be a decent starter. Some guys have one or two. Oddly enough, Soria is the most suited of all of them to become a starter, seconded by Aaron Crow, who probably will be a starter next year.

Some guys just work better as relievers as well. Mariano Rivera flamed out as a starter before the Yankees decided to try him in the bullpen. Then Voila! Dominant reliever.

July 17, 2011 at 1:54 PM

Blogger Kansas City said...

Michael,

I know that the need for a third pitch is conventional wisdom. I question whether it is true. I remember Leibrant years ago saying he threw a fast ball and a change up -- that's it. I assume the CW is suported by some level of knowledge within baseball, but I wonder. And, there is no way to find out without letting the guys pitch instead of wasting starts on guys who will not be here next year.

July 17, 2011 at 4:18 PM

Blogger Kenneth said...

Aaron Crow - I would like to quote what Kevin Goldstein said at the BP event at the "K", "You have a guy that was having a horrible time in the minors last year. There was talk he would not make the major league roster. Now he turned into an All-Star. Why would you screw that up by putting him back in the rotation." Okay so maybe it's not a verbatim quote but it's pretty close. Words from a smart man, please take heed. Teams that close games usually have a dominant eighth inning (Crow) & ninth inning (Soria) guy. Keeping Crow in the bullpen makes sense.

I do wonder if any of the other younger gentlemen in our bullpen have any success in their minor league records as a starter.

Nate Adcock ('88) 90 games started in the minors. None above high A ball.

Greg Holland ('85) 7 games started in the minors.

Everett Teaford ('84) 99 games started in the minors.

Blake Wood ('85) 68 games started, most at AA, none at AAA.

Adcock & Teaford, based off # of innings pitched, would be interesting to see used as starting pitchers starting in September. Heck let them each pitch three innings. 6 innings is about what KC starting pitching has averaged this season. Instead of one pitcher every fifth day why not two ?

July 17, 2011 at 11:17 PM

Blogger Kenneth said...

Does Melky Cabera have a less than average arm ? If not, why is there talk of moving him to left ? Alex Gordon has earned his position there and I don't see anyone on the team I would rather start at left. Why move Alex to RF and make him learn another new position ? Seems like if anyone should move it would be Melky. Unless he does not have a strong enough arm for RF.

I do think the Royals have to move at least one outfielder. Mitch Maier turned 29 and is not getting younger. Melky Cabrera will be turning 26 in August. Jeff Francouer is 26. Why are we talking about trading Cabrera and/or Frenchy ? We should be talking about what it will take to resign them. So far, both have proven they are deserving. They are both going to hit the magic number for hitters, 27, next year. So why isn't there more optimism that next year they could actually be better ? This is a very real possibility. I understand the frustration they are currently blocking Cain/Dyson from CF. I happen to LOVE Dyson's speed and his Defense (same reasons everyone loves Escobar, not sure why Dyson doesn't get this same love). I have seen mention of trading Frenchy to a contender so he could be a platoon player and crush lefties for a contender. Why can't he do that for the Royals ? I know both of them came here as free agents because GMDM promised them playing time but is a Cabrera/Francoeur platoon in RF really an outlandish idea ?

Let me state this clearly, I really like Mitch Maier. Trade, release or demote to AAA Mitch Maier. Again I think he's a great guy. For me it's hard to ignore his age relative to the other Royals OF's currently starting. I'm not sure he could produce as well as they can, and I don't think his glove is so much better that he can make up the difference in defense. I agree with Rany that the price of prospects is overvalued. So try this idea on for size. Trade Lorenzo Cain. I know this sounds crazy but if prospects are truly overvalued this makes sense. Cain packaged with Betemit (whose departure seems to be a forgone conclusion with the promotion of Moose) might be able to fetch something better than "a teenage arm with projection or a toolsy hitter with age on his side." Promote Jarrod Dyson full time. Yost could use Dyson's defense and speed where the Royals need it. Yost could use Frency and Melky in situations where it would help the team. This outfield rotation would actually allow Ned to manage games.

I'd like to see Cabrera and Frenchy back. It's been awhile since the Royals were starting three outfielders on pace to hit over 20hr's each. Why wouldn't you want that back again next year?

July 17, 2011 at 11:29 PM

Blogger Kenneth said...

I agree with Jack Campbell. If Royals are only starting two below avg defenders why do the numbers suggest the Royals are so bad ? Do you believe they are as bad as the numbers suggest ?

I would hope the Royals would have some type of data to suggest that Getz is much better defensively then Aviles. Otherwise, it would not seem to make a lot of sense why Aviles was sent to AAA instead of Getz.

Interesting note on the Royals attendance. Especially when I remember looking at the box scores in the KC Star last year and seeing nights the Royals struggled to draw 10,000. I'm pretty positive if you noticed it, ownership has as well. I would assume this reinforces confidence in the "process" (youth movement).

July 17, 2011 at 11:43 PM

Blogger kcghost said...

You can't unload Getz and Melky/Frenchy fast enough to suit me. Getz is an average defender at best and has 7 EBH's in 316 PA's. The guy has zero pop. We need to free up CF for Cain so let's get on with it.

You know GMDM will let Aviles go for the price of a plane ticket so we have to assume their is no interest in him.

The BP event at the K was fabulous. Rany And Kevin were especially good but Craig and Jeff made their contribution. The Royals portion was terrible (what were they going to say we haven't already read in the newspaper?). You had to be impressed with Wong. Bright, young and articulate - the kind of guy you want in your organization.

The Royals also boned this thing administratively. When we got there there wasn't a soul at Gate C that even knew what BP was, let alone that an event was scheduled for that day.

July 18, 2011 at 10:15 AM

Blogger Kyle said...

If none of these players are going to bring back a true #1 starter, then what's the point of trading them? Francoeur and Cabrera would be a really good RF platoon for less than 6 mil next year. The Royals paid Guillen 12 mil for a much worse RF. At some point the Royals are going to be good enough to need a Switch Hitting Power bat on the bench. Why not keep Betemit there, and try him in the corner outfield in the offseason?

Chen and Francis make sense to trade, but they don't HAVE to. They been the most consistent pitchers in the rotation all year. They are making very little, and could probably even be brought back next year.

I have never really understood the point of unloading decent players making low salaries. They aren't going to bring back much of value, and they aren't breaking the bank. The Royals have a 35 mil payroll this year, and it doesn't look like it's going up much next year.

Moore has done alot of things very well. Built a great farm system, sign decent FA to okay contracts, and hasn't sold the farm to win. He needs help building a 25 and a 40 man roster. And that has been his biggest issue.

July 18, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Blogger Kyle said...

5 Rotation - Monty, Duffy, Hoch, Paulino, and one of Crow/Teaford/ Adcock/Chen/Francis/SOS/Mazzaro
7 Bullpen - Soria, Holland, Coleman, Collins, Wood, Chapman, Herrera
2 C - Treanor, Perez/Pena/Pina
7 IF - Hosmer, Giavotella, Moustakas, Escobar, Betemit, Butler, Falu/Aviles
4 OF - Gordon, Cain, Cabrera, Francoeur

Other options are Dyson, Lough, C.Robinson, Myers, Navarro

July 18, 2011 at 11:13 AM

Blogger Fast Eddie said...

If I were the GM, this is what I'd do:

1) Send Moustakas to Omaha today, bring up Aviles, and showcase Betemit at 3B for a possible trade. Moustakas will have to stay at Omaha for 10 days minimum, which will bring us up to the trade deadline.

2) DFA Davies. I'm sure the Royals are thinking, "the guy struck out 9 last night, he's on the verge of turning the corner", so this probably won't happen. The 6 man rotation is a bad idea anyway, much worse when a pitcher with a 7+ ERA in the sixth slot.

3) Trade either Francoeur or Cabrera and bring up Cain. Try to get starting pitching prospect in the trade.

4) I don't know how to do this, but make room for Giovatella to play 2nd. I don't know if you could trade Getz or just make him a reserve.

July 19, 2011 at 9:16 AM

Blogger Brian Donohue said...

Just read your piece on the Pirates, a lot of fun. I was watching them last night, as I have all season, the guess who was behind the dugout? The King of golf, Arnold Palmer. Wonder if Clint asked him into the locker room to talk with his Montessori minions about what it takes to be a champion and surviving the travails of a long season. Anyway, if he managed to endure the rain delay, he saw the Battlin' Bucs take over first to themselves (the night was so long that the Brews lost in Zona at the same time the Bucs finished off cincy).

It looks like they're very weak in RF of all places. Have to wonder what it might take to get Markakis out of Baltimore. Great player who would fit nicely between Walker and Cutch in the lineup, excellent defender. And he deserves to play on a winner (somebody slap me, the Pirates are a winner).

July 19, 2011 at 2:50 PM

Blogger Aquaman said...

Add the Red Sox to the possible destinations for Francoeur. They would like a RH platoon partner for Josh Reddick, and they are staring at a 40-man roster crunch -- they will lose a couple guys in the Rule 5 draft this winter if they do nothing.

July 19, 2011 at 4:02 PM

Blogger pjbronco said...

By my count, Escobar now has errors in 4 straight games. Is this cause for concern? Don't get to see the games, so just looking at box scores. Read that he may not be the most focused guy on the team. Hate to see his stardom diminished by not making the routine plays. Anybody add any light to this?

July 19, 2011 at 8:49 PM

Blogger Kyle said...

Escobar gets very lackadaisical on the routine plays. He still makes spectacular plays. He may lose focus, but I don't think it's anything to be concerned about. He is starting to hit much better, so that is a possitive. So now he is producing runs, and can still prevent runs a good amount of times.

July 20, 2011 at 8:27 AM

Blogger Fast Eddie said...

Speaking of the Pirates, it appears Jason Grilli is going to join their bullpen from the Phillies AAA affiliate, where he has a sub 2.00 ERA. The Pirates need bullpen help -- they have largely relied on 4 relievers (Hanrahan, Veras, McCutchen, and Resop). Apparently they don't need starting pitching, which is carrying the team. They have some minor league depth. Maybe the Pirates would trade a AAA starter to the Royals for Francoeur.

July 20, 2011 at 9:58 AM

Blogger Kenneth said...

Someone is going to have to explain to me how trading away our players hitting for power and promoting great defending speedsters will not turn the Royals into the Mariners of the AL Central ?

Don't prospects have to play better than Major League players in order to deserve a promotion ? Or are we just going to promote everyone because "they are supposed to be good"? A little patience people. Please enjoy the fact that the team is no longer being paced in offensive production by Yuniesky Betancourt.

Don't lose sight of the fact that players like the Milk Man & Frenchy can help us, even if they weren't promoted from "The greatest farm system ever"

July 20, 2011 at 3:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Betemit to the Tigers to replace Inge. Cruz and Rodriguez in return. Not a bad haul for a player that had been relegated to the bench with the promotion of Moose. Rodriguez has a chance to be a LOOGY. Pretty sure we will never see either of them in the big leagues though. But, it is worth rolling the dice.

July 20, 2011 at 5:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, that is Cruz has a chance to be a LOOGY. It sounds like Rodriguez has a very good glove and it is just a matter if he can hit which seems to be a common theme for any catcher prospect...

July 20, 2011 at 5:12 PM

Blogger George said...

neither guy cracked the tigers top-30 prospects.

zzzzz.....

July 20, 2011 at 5:18 PM

Blogger Antonio. said...

The trade was for a deflated value Wilson Betemit. I think it was a good trade when you take that into consideration.

July 20, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Blogger pjbronco said...

IF (and only if, not sure if he is) Aviles is in the stadium, Yost better explain why he chose twice not to pinch run for Butler--in the 8th with the lead run, and in the 10th with the winning run. First to third on a double? Ugh. Use the weapons you've got Ned! If he has someone faster on the bench, then I really question his judgment.

July 20, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Blogger George said...

maybe, but when you have the brewers, angels, marlins AND tigers all interested, it sounds like WB had at least some value. is this really the best we could do?

should be interesting next couple of days with cabrera, frenchy and soria; although i'm guessing only one will get dealt.

July 21, 2011 at 9:31 AM

Blogger George said...

any chance we can package melky, frenchy and soria to philly for domonic brown?

July 21, 2011 at 12:17 PM

Blogger WSPA said...

I agree that the defense has been much better than in the past. Are the numbers messed up due to the relatively short amount of time that Kila and Aviles were getting regular time in the field?

I think Cain would be great insurance as a fourth OF next year.

I really like how 2012 stacks up. If they don't really improve the record next year, I'm going to get more depressed than ever.

July 21, 2011 at 1:17 PM

Blogger Michael said...

You all have to remember that Betemit was signed for nothing, was barely slugging over .400, and is atrocious defensively. We got a young projectable arm and a catcher on par with Perez. Good defender, questionable bat. Not too shabby if you ask me.

July 21, 2011 at 3:35 PM

Blogger Antonio. said...

You have to take into consideration that the rest of the league is playing better defense too.

July 21, 2011 at 7:16 PM

Blogger MoCrash said...

The Royals are -1.7 defensive wins above replacement value, -1.6 coming from Cabrera in CF. They are also -18 runs from fielding, -15 from Cabrera. The next-worst numbers on the team are a -.06/-7 from Hosmer at 1B. In other words, the Royals are not a bad defensive "team," but clearly have a huge hole at a premium position. Still, since Cabrera's offensive WAR is a team-high 3.4, moving him for the sake of moving him makes little sense. Cabrera could fetch a nice return for a contender in need of a corner OF, but isn't a fire-sale commodity.

July 22, 2011 at 7:00 AM

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