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Post a Comment On: Rany on the Royals

"Thoughts On Our New Coaches."

25 Comments -

1 – 25 of 25
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Royals' fan since the early 70s, I believe the the contribution of a hitting coach can be greater than that of the manager. I need not mention any names, but it's far easier for me to remember the iconic hitting coach during the Royals' nascent rise in the 70s than ANY Royals pitching coach during ANY era. (Oh, yeah, I remember Galen Cisco. Oops, I thought I wasn't going to mention any names.)

So, as the Royals begin again a rise toward contention and respectability, it heartens me to welcome back into the fold a true-blue disciple of the art of putting bat to ball (or wisely choosing not to do so.)

I've heard Seitzer talking about the art of hitting on many local radio spots the past 3-4 years, and I said to myself, there's a man who has MLB "cred" who can impart his wisdom about hitting to young, yet established regulars who are close to arbitration and would presumably be willing and eager to develop their skills as they inch closer to that big payday.

October 23, 2008 at 1:42 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice post, and I think your optimism about Seitzer is justified. I think that John Gibbons will blow up at least once and prove to be a detriment to the team.

Lastly, I don't think it's possible to define "massive government intervention" as strictly "left" any more, if it ever was.

October 23, 2008 at 8:21 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I admit that I like Seitzer as a hitting coach largely because i was a big fan of his as a player. However I also think he'll help the Royals hitters tremendously because he IS a patient hitter and preaches plate discipline. He now gets to preach plate discipline to a collection of hitters that could possible have WORSE plate discipline if their lives depended on it.

October 23, 2008 at 8:45 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Royals fan, I'm against trading Greinke. If Moore was to pull the trigger, however, what do you guys think of a package built around Russell Martin?

October 23, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Russell Martin + either Kemp or Ethier + good prospect would be the starting point

October 23, 2008 at 1:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's no chance the Dodgers would deal one of the outfielders with Martin for Greinke. Dream on. Chin Lung Hu and a prospect sounds right.

October 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope he does better than he did with the D-backs. He struggled to develop the young hitters with Arizona. Upon his departure, they took off. Hopefully, he's learned from that experience.

October 23, 2008 at 1:46 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great stuff Rany. I am cautiosly optimistic about Seitzer's hiring. Here's an important question for you and everybody else: How much say or impact does a hitting coach have on the kids in the minors? I would think that it would be incredibly important to be teaching your hitting approach/philosophies/habits to your hitters as soon as they get into the system. I imagine some teams do this way better than others. How do the Royals rate on this front? This should be something that Moore should be able to deliver on but I really have no idea.

I've rambled a bit, but I hope my point and question are clear.

Anthony

October 23, 2008 at 1:58 PM

Blogger StanD. said...

What is Ibañez's Blankenship Number? I live in Seattle so I see him a lot. He doesn't strike me as having a lot of plate discipline (much like the rest of the Mariners). But I could be wrong.

October 23, 2008 at 2:15 PM

Blogger StanD. said...

I just answered my own question. Here are Ibañez's Blankenship #s since 2003 (his last year with the Royals). I'm assuming my math is correct. A fairly sizable assumption as it were:

2003 - .173
2004 - .158
2005 - .256
2006 - .200
2007 - .193
2008 - .209

Not Seitzer-ian, but 2005 wasn't bad.

October 23, 2008 at 2:31 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This entire post just proves that Moore and Hillman aren't capable of running a team in Rookie ball. They need to go. A mid-season replacement is still better than what the Royals have right now.

Moore's refusal to fire Hillman during the season is just his ego refusing to admit it was a mistake in the first place.

October 23, 2008 at 2:31 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've never understood the importance place on the hitting coach. Heres a novel idea DM, if you want the team to walk and get on base more, then stop bringing in players that have an aversion to walking and getting on base. Does he really think that changing the hitting coach is going to get players like Gload, Guillen, Olivo, TPJ, etc... to stop swinging at every pitch and actually get on base? If he does then the organization has bigger problems than the hitting coach.

October 23, 2008 at 3:31 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Arizona hitters got better after Seitzer left? Really? Last year they were outscored so it was a bit of an anomoly that they made the playoffs, and this year they were perhaps the most underachieving team in the majors with the caliber of starting pitching they had. If anything, most of their young hitter have gotten worse after Seitzer left.

October 23, 2008 at 4:40 PM

Blogger StanD. said...

"...if you want the team to walk and get on base more, then stop bringing in players that have an aversion to walking and getting on base."

I assume that this is harder than it sounds because you don't make it to the Big Leagues by being a guy that walks a lot. You get there by getting hits. At least I expect that this is the predominant attitude among young prospects.

October 23, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Royals didn't fire Tony Pena in mid-season, he quit on them.

On top of that, it's far from clear that Pena was a bad choice forced by the mid-season-ness of Tony Muser's ouster. That magical season of 2003 may have been a fluke, but it was very likely his personality that made it happen, and probably why he took it so hard when his motivational techniques proved to be not up to the task on a non-fluke basis. Still, Nostromos Creemos! It was a fun ride.

October 24, 2008 at 9:07 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even bigger needs re: Guillen last season:

Someone to play defense and hit right-handed pitching for him

October 24, 2008 at 10:43 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe Martin+OF is too much for Greinke (I don't think so), on the other hand, it's amazing how some people just don't know how good and valuable young pitchers are... and how they different talent levels in the league makes NL position players less valuable.

October 24, 2008 at 10:46 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

hitting the nail on the head again rany. i couldn't agree more with your thought #2... bringing in guys to coach just because they were fan fave's as players is not good, but getting a former player who had major league skills and an enthusiasm to teach/work with the current crop who can also remind ALL the players in the clubhouse they play for a proud organization is a great hire.

why isn't willie wilson teaching our kids how stealing bases works (works easier when you're just damn fast, i know)? how'd buddy black get away?

maybe not full time. those fellas might not want full time gigs, and it's bad juju to give them equal or more access to the players during the season. but during spring training at the very least. great royals players from the 70's & 80's should be hanging out & giving advice. maury wills & sandy koufax come to mind in dodgertown along with some guys in yankee camp named berra & jackson. i know there's more, but that's just off the top.

October 25, 2008 at 12:16 PM

Blogger tmonsees said...

I gave the following response to a friend of mine who forwarded Rany's comments on the hiring of Kevin Seitzer as the Royals' hitting coach. My son Sam had been a pupil of Kevin Seitzer and his hitting academy for quite a few years. In response to a question about whether i thought K.Seitzer could succeed at the major league level, I provided the following:

Who knows. He knows hitting. Rany remarks that you can't compare little league hitters and his success there with seasoned major leaguers, and I agree. I don't know that by the time guys get to the majors you can have a lot of influence on pitch selection. While I try teaching it to kids at the earliest level, some kids have good pitch selection, and some don't. I think you can tweak it, I don't think you can teach it. Sam hardly ever swung at a bad pitch. He didn't get that from Seitzer. He did get tools on how to handle whatever pitches he chose to swing at. Seitzer will help that. I see the Royals' hitters' issues to be greater than a pitching coach can address. I think it gets down to what kind of hitters you are drafting or signing. Before they came to the Royals, did they draw walks? If not, I don't think you are going to teach them to do so. I would be interested in seeing Rany do some stats on how the Royals' hitters did earlier in their respective careers on walks. I would guess little, if any, better than with the Royals. I don't care how many times you preach pitch selection, the strike zone, philosophy about what the count is and what that means about pitch selection, you still have kids on a 3-1 count swinging at pitches 2 feet over their heads. I expect the same is comparatively true for major leaguers. You don't think Angel Berroa and Tony Pena know they should swing at better pitches? You don't think someone has preached that to them before? They can't help themselves!!! They are like alcoholics. There just isn't any equivalent baseball-pitch-selection rehab.

October 27, 2008 at 12:54 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, it's very frustrating watching the Rays,...and the Red Sox. The Royals are showing that they simply aren't good at talent evaluation and player development. I suspect that Gordon and Butler will never be of the caliber of Longoria, Pedroia, Youkilis already are. This is especially frustrating given that the Red Sox, I don't know, ALWAYS DRAFT MUCH LOWER than the Royals. ALWAYS.

October 27, 2008 at 3:52 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

John Gibbons is bad, bad news. Have you ever considered how much talent Toronto has? Yet they have been a pushover in the AL East all throughout Gibbons' tenure. Besides his inabillity to make strategic moves, the guy completely lost control of his clubhouse. Trust me, I was sad when I heard that Gibbons had a job in baseball again and that it was on the Royals, who if they are careful, have a chance at building a decent team.

Speaking of being careful, definitely hold onto Greinke.

October 28, 2008 at 9:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to piggyback on a few of the other posts:

1) As a group, Arizona's young hitters could not possibly have taken off after Seitzer. Currently living in Arizona, I get to watch them everyday. Mark Reynolds and Chris Young have amazing physical gifts (way beyond any current Royals). They often don't even have to make good contact to go yard. However, they also rarely make good contact. It was heartbreaking watching them strike out over and over. By the end of the season Mark Reynolds was struggling to finish a game without striking out every at bat. (Stephen Drew and Connor Jackson are also more talented than any current Royals, but they were also both minor disappointments until Drew's massive breakout at season's end. Jackson actually has the great eye you need for such a high on-base percentage, but he somehow manages to lift his back foot off the ground right at the point of contact, robbing him of almost all of his potential power.)

2) The most intriguing assertion in Moneyball was that you simply cannot teach plate discipline. I know most coaches reject this idea (if for no other reason than not trying to coach it up would be pretty lazy), but it seems most of the data backs this assertion. Beyond statistics, there are strong reasons to believe plate discipline is a physical talent and not a mental approach. How quickly the visual recognition to swing-decision happens is purely physical and would be unrelated to how athletic you are otherwise. Certain hitters like Ryan Howard have such incredible physical gifts in terms of swing speed/strength that they can make up for the lateness/guessing aspects of their approach by providing incredible production on their correct guesses.

3) While you can't take hitters who lack the physical tools to quickly recognize pitches early and give them great plate discipline, you can at least resist the temptation to ruin players who do have early recognition by encouraging them to swing freely. This is akin to the "pitch to contact" mantra we've heard throughout the years with the Royals. The biggest sea-change in the Moore era has been eliminating this silliness. Pitching to contact is a pure losing strategy. All competent baseball people know you must be able to throw strikes without unnecessarily inducing contact. Moore's philosophy in acquiring power pitchers who can throw strikes while missing bats has been very sound.

4) One of the other assertions in Moneyball directly conflicted with Stand's post which suggested minor league hitters reach the majors by getting hits not walks (which I would agree with Stand is the intuitive conclusion in this case and has certainly seemed to be the case with the Royals; or else our prospects can neither hit nor walk). Obviously Moneyball was written a number of years ago and was intended as something of a primer. Perhaps Rany could chime in with updated info on whether the overall walk rate at the minor league level is rising and whether or not there is a strong correlation between the walk rates of individual players and the rapidity of their rise through the minors.

5) Perhaps the Dodgers wouldn't trade Martin and one of the outfielders for Greinke - I'm not sure of their organizational depth at those positions - but I'm still not sure that would be fair value back. According to the formula Rany used in his previous post to forecast postseason success, Greinke is the quintessential piece to that puzzle. When you consider Greinke's strikeout/walk rate, his other pitching peripherals, his age, and his projected salaries in the near term, he's probably the most valuable player in all of baseball. To trade him you would need to get almost an entire quality farm system in return.

October 29, 2008 at 5:44 PM

Blogger Antonio. said...

As far as what Anthony said, maybe Seitz should have been hired as the minor league roving instructor. It would help the organization out more. Do you think he could coax Gload into a .350 OBP?

I'll feel cheated if I don't see Royal players at Mac and Seitz

October 30, 2008 at 1:12 AM

Blogger Antonio. said...

Snyder .298 OBP; .364 slug
Jackson .366 OBP; .399 slug
Reynolds .353 OBP; .515 slug (not full season, but equally split pre- and post-firing)
Drew .304 OBP; .354 slug (HUGE fall off from a good showing in rookie season. Played a bit better post-Seitzer but was really good in 2008)
Young .284 OBP; .480 slug
Quentin .306 OBP; .364 slug

This is what young D'Backs were hitting at the time Seitzer was fired. They all had better numbers the first full season (2008) without Seitzer--most of them improved in the second half.

The older hitters were all hitting well when Seitzer was let go. Save for Reynolds, all of the Baby Backs weren't hitting at all.

October 30, 2008 at 5:01 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rany why in the world would you not trade a reliever who is injury prone for 32 HR + 93 RBI's????

Quit bashing our GM.

October 30, 2008 at 3:39 PM

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