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Post a Comment On: Rany on the Royals

"For Want Of A Pitcher: The Elite Free Agents."

33 Comments -

1 – 33 of 33
Blogger Unknown said...

Enough with the Edwin Jackson love. Edwin Jackson sucks.

October 22, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

and they tend to be ill-advised, like trading the former Leo Nunez for Mike Jacobs (October 31st)

Ok, didn’t work out.

or trading Mark Teahen for Chris Getz and Josh Fields (November 6th)

Worked out better for the Royals.

or trading David DeJesus for Vinny Mazzaro and Justin Marks (November 10th)

Still quite possibly will work out better for the Royals.

or trading Ramon Ramirez for Coco Crisp (November 19th)

Probably would have worked out better for the Royals if Crisp wouldn’t have injured both shoulders.

******
It means offering a potential #2 starter, the kind of guy who got $12-13 million in the past, closer to $15 million a year.

Let’s say they re-sign Jeremy Guthrie, and pay him $8 million in 2013.

So, a potential #2 starter will get $15 million a year, but they’ll resign Guthrie for $8 million. Makes perfect sense in Rany world.

Throw in Noel Arguelles and the $1.38 million he’ll make to spend another year in the minors

Rany *loved* Arguelles when he was signed (“Arguelles is the $7 million cherry on the top of what was already a formidable amount of pitching depth in the minors.”). Now he uses him to talk crap on the Royals.

******

As far as Greinke: remember when Rany fell in line with everybody else, and was really down on drafting Greinke because he was a high school pitcher, and every smart team was drafting college guys?

I doubt that he returns, because I doubt the Royals are serious about pursuing him.

Nothing like just throwing out casual accusations to try to make the Royals sound worse..

5 years, $55 million for Meche is probably going to be 5 years, $70 million at the minimum for Sanchez. I could see 5/$75 or even 5/$80 as the asking price.

If every single team all of the sudden has tens of millions of dollars to start throwing around, it’s probably more like 5/$100, or 5/$125..

(RE Jackson) and had a 4.03 ERA. His ERA was a little inflated by giving up eight earnies in 1.1 innings in his next-to-last start of the year;

That still counts to you when you’re talking shit on other pitchers, though..

Granted, Duncan retired after last season and Lohse was better than ever this year – but I’d be very worried that whatever made Lohse such an effective pitcher in St. Louis will stay in St. Louis when he leaves.

Because, if Duncan’s not there to whisper in his ear, he’ll magically forget everything he’s ever heard up until this point..

(RE Pineiro): In 2011, he had a 5.13 ERA in 146 innings. He then tore his labrum and his career is in jeopardy.

You don’t think he might have injured it sometime during that season?

It’s possible that the Royals’ pitching staff was so bad that they made the defense look worse than it was, but I imagine such an impact was minimal.

“Because it fits my theory..”

October 22, 2012 at 2:09 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excellent writing Rany.

The previous commenter or two needs to get a life. It is easy to be critical. What body of work have you produced that anyone can criticize? At least Rany is putting his thoughts out there and has for quite some time.

I am hoping for Sanchez and Guthrie to be signed.

I am also of the opinion that Ventura should start the season in the bullpen and slowly be given the chance to start.

October 22, 2012 at 2:42 PM

Blogger Sooners Authority said...

Having read this piece convinces me that the Royals will sign Kyle Lohse to a huge deal and Dayton Moore will call it the best deal he's ever made. He'll be great competition for Hoch. I'll probably try to stop caring about the Royals.

October 22, 2012 at 2:44 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rany, I never thought I'd say this..I agree with you!
Anibal will be a great person to have in KC..there are also some other people that might be worth a risk though not a high one, such as Dempster, Marcum, Kurdoa, Peavy, Baker, Haren/Santana, Correia, Liriano, and even Big Z. Obviously some of these guys are #3s or 4s, but most have a breakout possibility, and if we were to get a 5 ERA, I'd rather have it coming from someone who gets Ks and pitches 200ip rather than Chen and Hochevar.

October 22, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

If David Dejesus for Vin Mazzaro and Marks works out for us I'll eat my hat.

It's easy to pick apart everything Rany says, but out of anyone who still analyzes and writes about the Royals, he's basically the only one that hasn't turned complete cynic. He still carries some degree of optimism.

He's just being real with what he's writing, especially given the track record of this organization.

As a Royals fan I'm PUMPED they've got all this money to spend. I'm also terrified at the thought of spending 15 million a year on Lohse, precisely because I know it's a real possibility.

October 22, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would much rather they sign a number 1/2 (like zackkkk, dreaming I know, or sanchez) than two number threes. It will say a lot about moore and his faith in the blessed farm he's built if he chooses to sign two number 3's. I would even throw that extra year onto sanchez to get it to about 6/85-90. This team needs to build around above average arms and sanchez is where you start. I know people are going to be pissed if it's one addition but i say it's better than the alternative.

replace sanchez for greinke and it goes as well but I'm not too optimistic on that.

October 22, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

Spend whatever the investment is in Sanchez and Guthrie!

October 22, 2012 at 10:00 PM

Blogger Deep Dixie Blue said...

Another great post, Rany.

I see Guthrie (Royals' version) and Lohse as very similar. I'd love to have one of them, but not both, particularly if it requires a 3 year or greater commitment. Lohse' expected Babip based on his batted ball data in 2012 was .330, a whopping 68 points higher than his actual Babip. It looks like a lot of luck was involved there. And since Guthrie has a much lower expected price tag, I'd definitely lean towards him.

Love your idea of the Sweeney clause for Greinke, though I harbor no realistic hope that he's coming back.

One quibble, I'm surprised that you cite Babip so freely without examining the underlying batted ball data. It seems to me that the two are inextricable.

You wrote, "So I have no choice but to come to the conclusion that the Royals have a bad defense."

If you examine the batted ball data for the Royals' pitching staff as a whole, their xBabip was .318, and since DER is the inverse of Babip, you can say that their expected DER should have been .682, 7 points lower than their actual DER. So it appears that the defense actually helped the pitching staff, albeit slightly. My conclusion would be that the onus for the poor DER is on the pitchers and their propensity for allowing hard contact (line drives, chiefly).

October 23, 2012 at 7:52 AM

Blogger Rany said...

That's an interesting point, Deep Dixie Blue. I'll admit to not being as fluent in xBABIP as I should be. Can you point me to some links that would help me brush up on the subject?

October 23, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Blogger Unknown said...

"inferior league"? Really? The NL has won the last 2 World Series and the last 3 All Star games. Time to update the memory bank.

October 23, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Comment deleted

This comment has been removed by the author.

October 23, 2012 at 2:02 PM

Blogger feifmeist said...

Rany can you take a look at Marco Scutaro. Signing him allows us to cut Chris Getz so even if we had to offer the same $6M he's making this year (which I doubt a 37 yo 2B gets), it's less than a $5M increase. Call this a band aid until Colon or one of the younger middle infielders can take over. I realize the money is better spent on starters but considering Ned Yost can't make out a lineup, having Scutaro to hit at the top of order and play good defense appeals to me as a way to make up for poor managerial skills.

October 23, 2012 at 2:06 PM

Blogger Pogue009 said...

Scutaro would be an interesting target but given his postseason it looks like he in the next Juan Uribe.
Here are list of guys who could be had pretty cheap who are good targets to be good defenders and maybe decent bats at 2B

Jerry Hairston JR 102 OPS+
Mark Ellis 93OPS+
Nick Punto 65OPS+ 122OPS+ in 2011
DJ Lemathieu 84OPS+
three of those guys are Dodgers so they probably will want to move one.



October 23, 2012 at 5:17 PM

Blogger Deep Dixie Blue said...

Jeff Zimmerman has an xBabip calculator here:

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/xbabip-spreadsheet/

And I believe this is the one that I downloaded last year and have been using:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/11/10/1124792/a-new-xbabip-calculator


I'm a little surprised that Fangraphs hasn't begun posting xBabip regularly. Maybe soon...



October 23, 2012 at 8:17 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

I enjoy reading Rany and listening to him on the radio. That doesn't change the fact that Edwin Jackson sucks.

October 23, 2012 at 10:57 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

If David Dejesus for Vin Mazzaro and Marks works out for us I'll eat my hat.

So, how good does Marks (or Mazzaro) have to be to equal one season of 240/323/376 DeJesus?

I notice that the complaints so far are simply about tone, but spend absolutely no time refuting any actual points that were brought up..

October 23, 2012 at 11:49 PM

Blogger Drew Milner said...

Why would the Royals consider signing a costly free agent backup catcher? If they decide not to continue with Brayan Pena, they have Max Ramirez waiting at Omaha. If Greinke got injured, wouldn't insurance pay his salary, or a major portion of it, back to the Royals?

October 24, 2012 at 12:20 AM

Blogger Drew Milner said...

I don't believe Dave Duncan retired as Card's pitching coach. I believe is was on leave to take care of his ailing wife. Someone else can look it up, I'm too tired :-)

October 24, 2012 at 2:58 AM

Blogger Drew Milner said...

Yes, I was right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Duncan_(baseball)

Duncan took an indeterminate leave of absence from the Cardinals on January 5, 2012 to spend time with his wife, Jeanine, who is dealing with cancer.

October 24, 2012 at 3:01 AM

Blogger KHAZAD said...

Deep Dixie- Good point about DER. It has always been inherently flawed as it assumes that all contact is the same. Some teams have more flyball pitchers or more groundball pitchers, which skew the numbers. In the Royals case, they give up more line drives.

Dan Hutson - Perhaps you should watch the entire baseball season instead of just tuning in for the ASG and World series. In the last 8 years, the leagues have played 2016 games between the leagues, and the AL has won more games every year. As a whole, they have a .556 winning percentage over this time, which means the average AL team would be a 90 win team in the NL. (and the average NL team would lose 90 in the AL) The NL's best winning percentage against the AL in a season is .480. One year the AL had a .611 winning percentage against the NL, which would have given them the best record in the NL that year.

The NL is very clearly the inferior league.

October 24, 2012 at 3:29 AM

Blogger KHAZAD said...

P.S. Dan Hutson - Your sample size is 3 meaningless exhibition games and 12 other games over 2 seasons involving 1 AL team and 2 NL teams.

My sample size is 2016 games over 8 seasons involving every NL team, in which they showed about the same amount of skill as the 2012 Royals.

October 24, 2012 at 3:43 AM

Blogger Michael said...

Unknown, I would take that offensive season from Dejesus with his defense over Mazzaro and Marks every day of the week and twice on Sunday. In fact, I'd offer them two to the Cubs along with Jeff Francouer for Dejesus right now! Marks might get a cup of coffee because, let's face it, we're the Royals, but honestly he's not a major league pitcher. We all know how bad Vin Mazzaro is.

"So, a potential #2 starter will get $15 million a year, but they’ll resign Guthrie for $8 million. Makes perfect sense in Rany world."

Um, Guthrie isn't a #2 starter. He's a #3 on a good team, a #4 on a WS contending team. So yeah, $8 million sounds about right.

Your point about Arguelles makes some sense, if we lived in a world where changing your mind wasn't allowed. Granted, Arguelles was slowed by injuries at first, but he hasn't been as good as advertised yet.

Edwin Jackson sucks??? If he was on the Royals and had a 4.03 ERA, he'd be pitcher of the year. Heck, even a 4.53 and he'd be looked at as a bright spot in the rotation!

Rany at least puts his opinions out there for everyone to read. I would like to know what you would do. Which starting pitchers would you go after this offseason? Why? What kind of contract do you think they'll end up with?

October 24, 2012 at 4:55 AM

Blogger Unknown said...

The Guthrie/Lohse question by unknown is so incredibly myopic silly that it is almost not worth responding to. The reason Guthrie gets $8mil and Lohse gets $15 is the same reason why we couldn't have traded Sanchez for Lohse.

And you can't be overly negative about the Royals. You just can't. It's just like how I always say it is imossible to overhype The Wire.

October 25, 2012 at 7:30 AM

Blogger Unknown said...

"if we lived in a world where changing your mind wasn't allowed."

The thing is we live in the world where Rany's allowed to absolutely love moves/players until that player sucks, and he can then backtrack and absolutely hate that player and use his stats to do his thing where he continually talks down on the Royals at every opportunity? Yeah, we actually live in that world, and that's what he does..

October 25, 2012 at 11:16 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

"Unknown, I would take that offensive season from Dejesus with his defense over Mazzaro and Marks every day of the week and twice on Sunday. In fact, I'd offer them two to the Cubs along with Jeff Francouer for Dejesus right now!"

I'd trade with you, because DeJesus had a pretty forgettable season for that one season Oakland got from him. Besides, you're not trading him *now*, you would have been trading for that one season a couple of years ago, and would no longer have him as a player..

Um, Guthrie isn't a #2 starter. He's a #3 on a good team, a #4 on a WS contending team. So yeah, $8 million sounds about right.

See, the thing is, Rany *constantly* underestimates what pitchers are going to get. So, when they sign for more, he can talk about how overpaid they are, but he doesn't go back and revise what he thought they would get vs. what they actually got. He just uses what they were "overpaid" to talk shit on what teams paid them..

Edwin Jackson sucks???

I never said that.

The reason Guthrie gets $8mil and Lohse gets $15 is the same reason why we couldn't have traded Sanchez for Lohse.

If Rany thought we should have signed Guthrie for $8M a season before we traded for him a couple of months ago, that would be one thing. But, he didn't -- he's king of AFTER THE FACT. He's only capable of analysis after things already happen, not beforehand. Which is way too late for actual baseball GMs..





October 25, 2012 at 11:27 PM

Blogger Michael said...

I still see nothing in there about what you would do if you were Royals GM. Please tell us before so that you too won't be "King of After the Fact."

October 26, 2012 at 1:01 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

I'll have to admit I almost swallowed my tongue after "unknown"s last comment. In fact, I am fairly sure hat this guy is just baiting people for fun. However...

THE POST IS TITLED "FOR WANT OF A PITCHER"!

It's not called "Looking Back, We Should Have Acquired"! He is acually doing NOTHING BUT PREDICTIONS AND PROJECTIONS! He is predicting salaries, performance going forward, and availability (later he'll be discussing trade options; really, my head might explode)!

HE EVEN DESIGNED A MODEL TO PREDICT DRAFT PERFORMANCE BASED ON AGE!

Rany isnot always right, but he is always interesting. He is always informed. He is always thorough.

He writes mostly about pitching right now (or the lack of) because he writes about the Royals. Pitching has defined this franchise for almost 20 years now. Still, he always has opinions on EVERYTHING the Royals do. So, give him a 60% success rate; and he would still give lots of ammo to nitpickers. (By the way, the day the Royals get 60% of their decisions right will be one to celbrate indeed.)

OK, I feel better now. Whew.

October 26, 2012 at 2:03 PM

Blogger thomasj19 said...

This is a meaningless discussion as long as Moore and Yost are in charge because the Royals won't win anyway.

October 26, 2012 at 3:24 PM

Blogger Matt said...

To Unknown who says Rany is King of AFTER THE FACT:

Please go and read what Rany wrote about the Washington Nationals BEFORE the 2012 season. It's on Grantland. It's the article where Rany says the Nats will make the playoffs and the Marlins will suck.

You are more than entitled to your opinion, but in this case I would say that you are mistaken about Rany's ability to make an accurate forecast about the future.

October 26, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

I think that the Royals just claimed Chris Volstad from the Cubs. A real major league starter who may be better than Hochevar. Not sure this is a step up.

October 27, 2012 at 4:31 AM

Blogger Drew Milner said...

Volstad's stats look horrible

October 28, 2012 at 12:18 AM

Blogger twm said...

Is it just me or are the Giants of these past few years an exciting/depressing reminder of the '85 Royals?

October 28, 2012 at 11:02 AM

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