Well, given that the statue is outside of a predominantly black megachurch, I highly doubt the church iteself would have the cross burst into flame. That would qualify as hate speech against their own parishoners. And I doubt that's what they had in mind when constructing it.
It does sort of have an intimidating feel to it. I can't imagine that it makes any nearby Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Secularists, etc. feel comfortable. It makes me feel uncomfortable, and I'm on the other side of the country (in many ways). Maybe some kind of federalism is what's in store. If some areas have strong Chrisitianist majorities, maybe we should let them go their way. They probably feel just as threatened by me and my godless secularism. Unfortunately, the divisions couldn't be neat and tidy.
I wish I had a good way of persuading people that the kind of thinking represented by that statue is bad news for our country.
Thanks for stopping by, Mr. Kotas.
4:36 AM, July 06, 2006
Anonymous said...
Maybe a good way to persuade them is that one of the founding keys of this country is freedom of religion, and keeping religion out of politics. The whole point of what these people seem to be doing is to inject their religion into politics.
A second point is that of Christianism, mainly that it is a word Sullivan invented to be similar to Islamist. How well is mixing Islam into government in the Middle East going? I mean so far, last seven hundred years or so. War War War.
I wrote a little bit on this myself, you may want to see it at
Thanks for stopping by napablogger. I actually already read your post on this subject! I'm glad I'm not the only one freaked out by this.
I agree that both your arguments are good arguments. But I'm not convinced that rational persuasion can penetrate deep enough to the parts of the mind where this kind of zealotry has its roots.
I should read more about people who have been fanatical Christianists, but then somehow changed their minds. I know there are quite a few out there. But I want to know what mechanisms and experiences were involved in thier "seeing the light" (of reasonableness). I suspect the same forces are at work in other forms of religious fanaticism. I think finding a way to turn Christianists and Islamists into regular Christians and Muslims is going to be one of the great challenges of this century.
I don't see anywhere in the description if the upraised arm is articulated so it can actually bash evil heathens with the cross. If it actually did that, I guess I'd be more amused by it. ROBOT CHRISTIAN LIBERTY SMAAAAAAAASH!!!
7:59 AM, July 07, 2006
Anonymous said...
z, I agree that Christianists, or the really radical fundamentalists, are not going to be rationally talked out of their position, but I do think that they can wake up. In waking up, rational information can be part of that. Usually what happens is that they experience something that snaps them out of it. That something is realizing something is really wrong.
Anyway, I appreciate your following this issue, as I am very interested in it myself. I will check back to see what you are finding.
Grishnash: Yes, if it could crush cars and shoot fire out of its eyes and was holding a giant twelve pack of beer I might be able to accept it as just another piece of American Super-Kitsch. But it seems as though its completely earnest and straightforward. Christianists would be so less scary if they exhibited a sense of humor about themselves more.
Thanks Napablogger. Sometimes I find that when I give a friend advice about a matter, they don't take it in right away, but later when they are ready to make a change my advice is remembered and becomes helpful. Maybe our arguments against this fusion of church and state will be like that advice: it might not enlighten anyone instantly, but maybe it will seep in and have a delayed effect.
10:27 AM, July 07, 2006
[Image] In case you needed a visual reminder of what Christianists want, I thought I’d show you this, from the New York Times (HT: Sullivan). I liked her better when she was holding a torch. Obviously, as an atheist I’m just a wee bit more concerned about this than other Americans are. But anyone who likes to use birth control should probably sit up and take notice. If the visual isn’t unsettling enough, listen to this: "I decree the spirit of conviction on this intersection," Mr. Williams boomed from a podium decorated with red, white and blue bunting. "This statue proves that Jesus Christ is Lord over America, he is Lord over Tennessee, he is Lord over Memphis."How exactly a large, tacky statue proves anything whatsoever is something of a mystery to me. I guess it proves that there’s a nice confluence of jingoistic tribalism and Christianist zealotry going on in this country. I was glad to hear that many of the locals were critical of the statue.
The church that built this statue is apparently predominantly black. I’m not sure what that means, if anything. I wonder if black evangelicals will vote Republican in larger numbers, despite the blatant racism of the Republicans “Southern Strategy”. I hope not. Much of the impetus for the civil rights movement came from black religious leaders. Where is that energy being directed now? I hope it’s not going to be directed into the construction of similar statues.
"Maybe we should amend the constitution to outlaw this instead:"
8 Comments -
May be that cross is meant to be torched, to burst into flame, at irregular intervals, or as necessary? Sort of a celebratory anti-beacon of freedom.
4:21 AM, July 06, 2006
Well, given that the statue is outside of a predominantly black megachurch, I highly doubt the church iteself would have the cross burst into flame. That would qualify as hate speech against their own parishoners. And I doubt that's what they had in mind when constructing it.
It does sort of have an intimidating feel to it. I can't imagine that it makes any nearby Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Secularists, etc. feel comfortable. It makes me feel uncomfortable, and I'm on the other side of the country (in many ways). Maybe some kind of federalism is what's in store. If some areas have strong Chrisitianist majorities, maybe we should let them go their way. They probably feel just as threatened by me and my godless secularism. Unfortunately, the divisions couldn't be neat and tidy.
I wish I had a good way of persuading people that the kind of thinking represented by that statue is bad news for our country.
Thanks for stopping by, Mr. Kotas.
4:36 AM, July 06, 2006
Maybe a good way to persuade them is that one of the founding keys of this country is freedom of religion, and keeping religion out of politics. The whole point of what these people seem to be doing is to inject their religion into politics.
A second point is that of Christianism, mainly that it is a word Sullivan invented to be similar to Islamist. How well is mixing Islam into government in the Middle East going? I mean so far, last seven hundred years or so. War War War.
I wrote a little bit on this myself, you may want to see it at
http://www.napablogger.com/napablogger/2006/07/christianists_a.html
11:29 AM, July 06, 2006
Thanks for stopping by napablogger. I actually already read your post on this subject! I'm glad I'm not the only one freaked out by this.
I agree that both your arguments are good arguments. But I'm not convinced that rational persuasion can penetrate deep enough to the parts of the mind where this kind of zealotry has its roots.
I should read more about people who have been fanatical Christianists, but then somehow changed their minds. I know there are quite a few out there. But I want to know what mechanisms and experiences were involved in thier "seeing the light" (of reasonableness). I suspect the same forces are at work in other forms of religious fanaticism. I think finding a way to turn Christianists and Islamists into regular Christians and Muslims is going to be one of the great challenges of this century.
12:10 PM, July 06, 2006
I don't see anywhere in the description if the upraised arm is articulated so it can actually bash evil heathens with the cross. If it actually did that, I guess I'd be more amused by it. ROBOT CHRISTIAN LIBERTY SMAAAAAAAASH!!!
7:59 AM, July 07, 2006
z, I agree that Christianists, or the really radical fundamentalists, are not going to be rationally talked out of their position, but I do think that they can wake up. In waking up, rational information can be part of that. Usually what happens is that they experience something that snaps them out of it. That something is realizing something is really wrong.
Anyway, I appreciate your following this issue, as I am very interested in it myself. I will check back to see what you are finding.
9:16 AM, July 07, 2006
Grishnash: Yes, if it could crush cars and shoot fire out of its eyes and was holding a giant twelve pack of beer I might be able to accept it as just another piece of American Super-Kitsch. But it seems as though its completely earnest and straightforward. Christianists would be so less scary if they exhibited a sense of humor about themselves more.
10:24 AM, July 07, 2006
Thanks Napablogger. Sometimes I find that when I give a friend advice about a matter, they don't take it in right away, but later when they are ready to make a change my advice is remembered and becomes helpful. Maybe our arguments against this fusion of church and state will be like that advice: it might not enlighten anyone instantly, but maybe it will seep in and have a delayed effect.
10:27 AM, July 07, 2006