Applications Google
Menu principal

Post a Comment On: Backreaction

"Be careful what you wish for"

15 Comments -

1 – 15 of 15
Comment deleted

This comment has been removed by the author.

2:05 PM, April 10, 2012

Blogger Robert L. Oldershaw said...

Speaking of planets and 'bias blindness', here is a pertinent example.

Roughly a year ago I tried to argue that the new exoplanet data: clearly showing high eccentricity systems, non-coplanar systems, retrograde orbits and "hot Jupiters" all pointed to the Planet Capture Model of stellar system formation, as predicted by Discrete Scale Relativity, and were very difficult to understand from the old Laplacian Cloud Collapse Model.

At sci.astro.research and sci.physics.research my arguments were received with nothing but loud barking that the Capture Model was "impossible" for various reasons.

I note that the distinguished astrophysicist Helmut Abt will give a talk at the June AAS meeting in Anchorage that says the orbital elements of exoplanet systems convince him that many exoplanet systems have to be the product of captures of unbound objects.

Main point: For many, many decades astrophysicists clung to the Laplacian Model uncritically.
And worse, they were blind to the naturalness and elegance of the Capture Model.

Finally a few brave souls are questioning the old dogma. The observational data is heavily in their favor and they will win out in the end.

As with highly excited atoms, so with stellar systems because we live in a discrete self-similar cosmos.

RLO
Discrete Scale Relativity
Discrete Fractal Cosmology

8:31 PM, April 10, 2012

Blogger Uncle Al said...

Yeah, Galileo!
"Persephone Throckmorton" (four) words

9:12 PM, April 10, 2012

Blogger claver said...

Cool!

11:50 PM, April 10, 2012

Blogger Bee said...

Hi Tom,

Not sure what it has to do with this post, but I dump most of the books at my parents' place. (Who still hope that one day I'll have a decent job and buy a house and finally clear out my room.) Best,

B.

2:46 AM, April 11, 2012

Blogger Giotis said...

This is because every man/woman is an island. They all think that they are special somehow and they can't possibly be wrong. They are chosen by fate to do marvels. They refuse to see themselves as part of a broader picture. They are the kings of their own personal kingdom an the rest of the people are just the background, the subjects obliged to admire them. They are the writers of their autobiography and not random heroes in life's mad and chaotic novel where misfortunes happen all the time to anybody.

It's only natural...

4:04 AM, April 11, 2012

Blogger Bee said...

Well, if it's normal to believe one is special, believing one is normal would mean believing being special too, so what choice do we have then?

4:36 AM, April 11, 2012

Blogger tom said...

Bee,

it has nothing to do with this post, but I been curious to know how you handle it for a while. didn't want tow rite you an email though.

thomas

5:05 AM, April 11, 2012

Blogger Giotis said...

The choice you have is to try walking in other people's shoes by building strong relations and a common understanding with your follow men. These strong bonds within society will render you special and important. Such a man for example would never brag a priori that he is a better driver. On the contrary the Western man is taught that the only way to be special is to continuously boost his ego and alienate himself from society.

So the scientists instead of focusing all the time on what's wrong with the brain or the genetics should start thinking on what's wrong with the society in which people are brought up.

5:31 AM, April 11, 2012

Blogger Bee said...

Hi Giotis,

You're right of course in that these biases are socially driven. But I've written so often about the systemic problems with academia, I thought I'd try something that addresses the individual starting point instead. If the community wouldn't tolerate biases the problem would be much alleviated. Unfortunately, in my impression biases are actually amplified by the community eg because people who are confident are paid more attention to than people who are careful and maybe not entirely convinced of their own work. Or, as I wrote recently, because they punish you for admitting on being wrong, even though that's what good science sometimes requires.

Susan Cain in her book "Quiet" also picks on the problem, though from a somewhat different perspective. Introverts, she reports, are statistically less likely to misjudge realistic outcomes. They are also less likely to be very convincing and enthusiastic defenders of their own convictions. A culture that doesn't pay attention to the "quiet" people, Cain argues, does so at its own peril.

So. I agree with you. Still, I think it's worthwhile to point out that everybody can work on their biases individually too. Cain doesn't explicitly say it that way - she isn't concerned with the same problem as I (how science works best), but she too points out that we're not just stuck with the way our thought process work, but that they can be to some extent improved with some effort. Best,

B.

5:59 AM, April 11, 2012

Blogger Phillip Helbig said...

"To see just how common it is for people to overestimate their own performance, consider the 1981 study by Svenson which found that 93% of US American drivers rate themselves to be better than the average."

Some high fraction of US Americans believe that they are among the top earners, when in fact they are not. As such, they oppose higher taxes for the rich (and lower for the poor) because they mistakenly believe they would have to pay more when in fact they would have to pay less.

It is said that Eisenhower was shocked when an aide mentioned that half of the US population was below average in intelligence.

6:41 AM, April 11, 2012

Blogger Phillip Helbig said...

@RLO: One can read the abstract here: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010PASP..122.1015A

Note that he is not talking about the majority of planets, but the majority of exoplanets found to date. He mentions that we are limited in what we can at present detect and notes that we wouldn't detect something like our own solar system. In other words, a selection effect, well known in astronomy and in exoplanet research. You, not Abt, are making the jump from "majority of detected planets" to "majority of planets".

6:46 AM, April 11, 2012

Blogger Phil Warnell said...

Hi Bee,

I would agree that recognizing our biases seems to be a difficult thing for people in general and yet of the greatest necessity in science. That is especially since as one of the bedrock premises of science being the maintenance of doubt. I think where the problem arises is when this premise is extended more to having scientists doubting their peers than it is to the current established models. I think then the avoidance of such often detrimental biases can only be achieved if theorists struggle with their own proposals to have them made as clear and distinct as possible, while remaining skeptical of scientific models which are vague and/or obscure as to depend on this to having them maintained as unquestionable.

I guess than that is why my favourite physicists of the past century have been those that seemed to have recognized this as to have it to guide them. That’s to say that seemingly arrogant confidence need not interfere with conducting science as long as it’s only the scientists who are the only thing left to be vulnerable to being blinded by them while not their objective.


“I'd rather be clear and wrong than foggy and right”

-J.S. Bell (in response to John Wheeler arguing the point I’ve made here) as found in “ The Age of Entanglement by Louisa Gilder”


Best,

Phil

7:50 AM, April 11, 2012

Blogger Uncle Al said...

Fremdschämen - An observer's reaction to somebody who should feel a horror of embarrassment but is clueless. US Attorney General Eric Holder comes to mind, as does Indian public sanitation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Dunning-Kruger effect (pdf), 2000 Ig Nobel Prize.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge," Charles Darwin. "What does not support my imposition makes it stronger." Never write a bank holdup note on the back of one of your checks.

12:24 PM, April 11, 2012

Blogger Robert L. Oldershaw said...

Dear Helbig,

When you say misleading things like: "You, not Abt, are making the jump from "majority of detected planets" to "majority of planets".", you are claiming that I have said things that I clearly have not said.

That behavior is quite unscientific and suggests some sort of personal vendetta against me and Discrete Scale Relativity.

Stick to the facts and what people actually say. Don't put words in their mouths or use the shabby and hackneyed straw-man debating tactic.

RLO
Discrete Fractal Cosmology

5:37 PM, April 11, 2012

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i>, <a>

Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author.

You will be asked to sign in after submitting your comment.
OpenID LiveJournal WordPress TypePad AOL