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"Extra Dimensions"

23 Comments -

1 – 23 of 23
Blogger QUASAR9 said...

Yeah Bee, like it. ---

PS - Further to BRAs & Cats:

one thing is the event horizon singularity - we cannot see beyond it

another thing is the blackhole singularity.

The same word used for 2 totally different things(?) concepts. The event horizon is NOT a blackhole.

Thanks for the 'naked' link

7:52 PM, July 08, 2006

Anonymous paul valletta said...

A really fantastic expose on a very interesting subject, many thanks.

I do so admire Lisa Randall, and have read most of her pre-print papers, but I must get her book.

P.S recently discussed here:

http://eskesthai.blogspot.com/2006/07/lisa-randalls-theoretical-insights.html

9:28 PM, July 08, 2006

Anonymous Garrett said...

Hey Sabine, thanks for collecting this list of Kaluza-Klein themed models for unification. There are a couple things I hope you'll consider adding. First, ( I suggest this one selfishly ;) you may wish to include models in which the algebra is that of a higher dimensional spacetime, but the base manifold is four dimensional. This is, essentially, the idea of using a single fiber bundle for unification. Second, it would be useful if you more clearly weighed the problems and benefits of each model, including the old-fashioned Kaluza-Klein model (perhaps with N^pqr or CP2 as a compact KK space).

3:21 AM, July 09, 2006

Anonymous fh said...

"one thing is the event horizon singularity - we cannot see beyond it"

There is no physical singularity at the event horizon, just a coordinate singularity, everything else stays finite (well everything local anyways, it's an infinite redshift to asymptotic infinity, etc, etc...)

---

Anyways, great post bee, I had missed that you had gotten accepted for the Emmy Noether program, I noticed that Christian Fleischhack is building up a group on mathematical LQG with them (but only realized after I had accepted my PhD position in England), having you do phenomenology would have been excellent.
The DFG inflexibility is unfortunate and annoying, and most of all very unbefitting for a research funding institution.

8:55 AM, July 09, 2006

Blogger Bee said...

Hi Quasar,

the even horizon is not a singularity. In contrast to you, I would define a black hole by the existence of the horizon, NOT by the existence (?) of a singularity in the inside (cause I don't think there is one). Best, B.

1:23 PM, July 09, 2006

Blogger Bee said...

Hi garrett,

I agree with you and I thought about it, but it would have been too off topic here. I should do so some other time. In the above post, I have tried to focus on the phenomenology. Best, B.

1:25 PM, July 09, 2006

Blogger Bee said...

Hi fh,

just noticed that you already said there is no singularity on the horizon. Yes, the DFG story is a very very sad story. It would have been such a good opportunity.

On the other hand, I came to think lately that its maybe not soo bad, coz this way I won't be stuck on my proposal for the next 6 years.
And I am sure I will find some other way to get a group started.

Best, B.

1:32 PM, July 09, 2006

Blogger QUASAR9 said...

Bee, exactly the word is being used to describe two different things.

Unless you imagine we are living in a black hole, and like Smolin you presume we are living in a pocket universe though that blackhole therefore the Cosmic Event Horizon = to blackhole event horizon.

My point is that if you travel towards the periphery of the event horizon in the 'known' Cosmos, the periphery will just move further outwards >>>

So who is going to win. France or Italy, or do you not care anymore now that Germany is out. laters ...

1:57 PM, July 09, 2006

Blogger QUASAR9 said...

PS - the 'event horizon' of a blackhole or star gone supernova is the visible debri surrounding it (it being the space the star previously occupied) - whether you believe there is a singularity in the middle of it (that space) or not.

2:05 PM, July 09, 2006

Anonymous Uncle Al said...

There is no extrapolated engineering for probing the small distances in which multi-dimension theory hides from empirical falsification. However, if the maths are not symmetric to parity transformation there is a curious footnote.

The fluctuation scale of quantitative parity divergence of enantiomorphic solid sphere single crystals decreases with overall radius as k/(radius)^2. The larger the radius the way smaller the minimum radial increment that can change the moments of inertia of the mass distribution. For quartz, the minimum fluctuation radius increment in femtometers is (10^6)/(radius)^2, radius being in angstroms,

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/combofm2.png
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/combofm1.png
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/comborad.png

A 0.5 cm radius solid single crystal of quartz is then surface roiling parity divergence at 4x10^(-10) fm. Gravitation theory ungerade to parity transformation will show anomalies like Equivalence Princple parity violation. Galactic engineering is not required, only an existing Eotvos balance.

2:42 PM, July 09, 2006

Anonymous Chris said...

Great post! Thanks, wasn't aware there's been so much work on that stuff. But tell me, whats it YOU have been working on?

10:54 PM, July 09, 2006

Blogger sigfpe said...

One thing that I think you don't mention is that extra dimensions aren't necessarily a choice. Starting with some basic assumptions that make no reference to the dimension of spacetime, like those of (super)string theory, we're led inevitably to specific dimensions, because otherwise the physics is inconsistent.

I think the popular perception is that physicists add extra dimensions just for the hell of it. (Some do, of course.)

3:41 PM, July 11, 2006

Blogger Bee said...

Hi sigfpe,

One thing that I think you don't mention is that extra dimensions aren't necessarily a choice.

Right, I didn't mention that on purpose. I don't think we have a choice on the number of extra dimensions, but I don't think either String Theory is the right way to prove it. Best,

B.

4:11 PM, July 11, 2006

Blogger Neil' said...

Hello. It's great to find a quality blog about frontier issues like extra dimensions. I've posted about why space must have three large dimensions on my own blog, tyrannogenius. Below is a near quote from one of my posts:

In April, I listened to an interview on Public Radio with physicist Lisa Randall. She is a top theorist on foundational theory of why the universe is the way it is. That means string, branes, and such. One of the venerable questions is: why is space three-dimensional? It may seem natural to have three dimensions of space and one of time, but mathematically there can be any number of dimensions (think of specifying points using 4, 10, etc. variables.) Physicists, including Lisa, say they can't see why space *had* to have three dimensions. Check out this.

However, they have come up with reasons why three large-scale dimensions would be more likely to expand out of a larger set (usually thought of as 10 or 11) of original, perhaps tiny dimensions. Below follows a statement adapted from my post to radio open source in response to the interview, and outlining my own efforts to answer this question.

I have been working myself on the question, why are there three *large* dimensions of space? (There are probably more, like a total of 10 or 11 space dimensions, but the rest are curled up very small or otherwise inaccessible.) After extrapolating electromagnetic interactions to spaces of other dimensions, I found at least two arguments:

1. In spaces with other than one or three dimensions, an oscillating charge does not project the same *average* field along the axis of oscillation as the rest value. That is due to two things: the combination of "projection" of its retarded distance - where it would be had it continued at the velocity it had when light left it - and the distortion of the field due to Lorentz contraction, which weakens it to gamma^(1-N) the value it has at rest. N is the number of large space dimensions. (We also must take into account the Doppler shift of projection intervals. Heh, it’s not quite as complicated as it sounds.) Remember that the Coulombic electric field intensity is given as E = qr^(1-N) due to field spreading. This amplifies the effect of the oscillating charge’s apparent position being close (projected from approaching cycle) to a second “target” charge at rest. It increasingly swamps the weakening effect of the gamma factor as N goes above three and is incorrect when N = 2. That would impose a net force on a second "target" charge unequal to that on the oscillating charge, and violate conservation of momentum and energy. The one-dimensional case is ruled out due to infinite potential energy as is the 2-D case (why didn’t A. K. Dewdney realize that about the 2-D Planiverse?)

2. Let two charges be connected by a reasonably rigid rod. Then, accelerate the rod along its length. The combined force between the charges will be derived from the sort of considerations given in (1.), as the projected field of each charge catches up to the other charge. Then we must take into account the extra force created by the action of acceleration on the relativistic stress-correction to the momentum and energy of the rod. Only in three dimensions of space does that equal in net the effective inertia the charges should have given their potential energy. (In higher dimensions, taking the integral of f = q1q2/r^(N-1), that potential w.r.t. infinity is: -q1q2r^(2-N)/(2-N).)

I hope I can publish the full development of this before long. I don’t think anyone else has an explicit proof that N *must* equal three, only reasons it was more likely to form, or oddities like being unfriendly to life, distorted wave propagation (see Barrow and Tipler’s _The Anthropic Cosmological Principle_ for great discussion of this.)

Neil Bates

10:39 AM, July 26, 2006

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1:15 AM, August 11, 2006

Anonymous Lorne Ipsum said...

Just wanted to let you know that this post has been included in the third installment of the Philosophia Naturalis blog carnival (dedicated to the physical sciences and technology). You can see it all here:

http://geekcounterpoint.net/files/GC046B.html

Lorne Ipsum
Chief Geek, Geek Counterpoint blog & podcast

12:50 PM, November 09, 2006

Blogger Ronald said...

String theory has been proven with mathematical rigor to be wrong. It has long been known that physics (a universe)would be impossible in any dimension but 3+1. Also there is a quantum theory of gravity, the only possible one since it is required by geometry: GR. The description of the books showing this is at impunv.blogspot.com. For the dimension see

Our Almost Impossible Universe:
Why the laws of nature make the existence of humans extraordinarily unlikely
R. Mirman

and for the derivation of GR from geometry (the Poincare group) and quantum gravity see Massless Representations of the Poincare Group electromagnetism, gravitation, quantum mechanics, geometry
R. Mirman.
The proofs are rigorous and verified by others.

12:44 PM, January 27, 2007

Blogger Ronald said...

String theory has been proven with mathematical rigor to be wrong. It has long been known that physics (a universe)would be impossible in any dimension but 3+1. Also there is a quantum theory of gravity, the only possible one since it is required by geometry: GR. The description of the books showing this is at impunv.blogspot.com. For the dimension see

Our Almost Impossible Universe:
Why the laws of nature make the existence of humans extraordinarily unlikely
R. Mirman

and for the derivation of GR from geometry (the Poincare group) and quantum gravity see Massless Representations of the Poincare Group electromagnetism, gravitation, quantum mechanics, geometry
R. Mirman.
The proofs are rigorous and verified by others.

11:48 PM, January 30, 2007

Blogger docG said...

Here is a story about how extra dimensions got started. When the Big Bang exploded, there was also an equal and opposite IMplosion, creating an inside-out universe. This universe is probably the size of an atomic nucleus, but apparenly tapers off at the end to roughly the Planck length.

Now what we have is the big huge universe that has been exploding for billions and billions (as Carl Sagan would say) of years and the little tiny universe that has remained right at its center.

Only the center of the universe is everywhere. So the tiny universe has to also be everywhere. Rolled up into a tight little nuclear sized ball, natch. So this is where the tiny rolled up extra dimensions come from. They are actually hidden inside the nucleus of every atom. Which means that the strong force is actually gravity in reverse, so that's how we unify gravity with the strong force.

Also, since this tiny universe, which is actually a great big universe, only inside out (see Abramowicz for the details), is everywhere, it has mass and so also energy, which makes it a likely candidate for the source of dark energy and matter.

Is this a "falsifiable" theory? Yes. If you go something somewhere where there is very weak gravity, then the strong force should also be found to have weakened by the same ratio.

End of story.

"I do not seek I find." Picasso

8:06 PM, February 27, 2007

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi,
The links to the ADD, UXD and RS models are not working.

~
casper

9:46 PM, March 04, 2007

Blogger Bee said...

Hi Caspar,

thanks. These were links within the page. I am perfectly sure they worked when I looked at the post the last time - this is one of the stupid blogger problems. The editor has a life on it's own. Even if you don't use rich-text, just opening and saving a post can ruin everything from layout over links, special characters, embedded sources. It's awful. Hope it works now!

Best,

B.

12:24 PM, March 05, 2007

Anonymous Casper said...

you are right about blogger posts... sometimes it is indeed enough to open and save something to mess it up!

now the links rock! :)
Glad to know that your blog is well maintained.

cheers!
Casper

7:49 AM, March 11, 2007

Blogger Plato said...

Universal Extra Dimensions: New DZERO Results

1:19 PM, February 13, 2012

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