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Blogger Gerald Ford said...

Excellent post. I've read enough of the Buddhist sutras from both the Theravada and Mahayana traditions that I've noticed some of the same points you've elucidated here. From both traditions, you can see a lot of "cut and paste" or "hidden agendas". Both sound very negative and at times I've felt exasperated by this, but then after more thought I've come to realize that I have no idea why they did what I did and it's wrong to assume it was intentionally negative.

So, now I tend to take the text with a different approach: why did they write this? who was the audience? etc, etc.

Also, I've not heard that Shingon was the largest sect in Japan. I've seen some rudimentary govt. statistics that pointed out that Shinshu and Jodo Shu were the largest. However, how this info was gathered or whether it acknowledged "active" vs. "general" followers, was not explained.

Thanks!

Saturday, September 06, 2008

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Gerald,

Yes. The basic point is that you are more likely to get out of a text what you expect to get. Which is why fundamentalists of all religions are able to confirm their beliefs!

I've sadly met many Buddhist fundamentalists so obsessed with what is in the texts that they feel aggrieved if you show some initiative.

It's quite difficult to really know what a 2000 year old text is trying to say. Even when the obvious things are stated - like the author and the audience - we have no guarantees that this is accurate information in the sense we expect. Our precision in this is matched to some extent by the Chinese in there literature, but for Indians it did not matter at all it seems. So if we don't look we might never see it, and even if we do it make take considerable detective work (exemplified I think by Prof. Gombrich in one camp and Greg Schopen in another) to figure out the message of a text.

And that is just the start because then we have to see if it works in practice!

Jayarava

Sunday, September 07, 2008

OpenID level8 said...

The basic point is that you are more likely to get out of a text what you expect to get. Which is why fundamentalists of all religions are able to confirm their beliefs!

I once had an interesting conversation with someone regarding another religion: islam. We both had read the Quran, and were talking about how some people seem to find excuses for war, killing, etc, while some found reason for living a wholesome life, or peace to others.

The conclusion was the interpretation spoke more to the interpreter, rather than the passage.

I think that can be applied easily to the corpus of Buddhist texts. People want to validate their own ideas about life when they read a certain text.

Instead, they should just read what they can and try to get the bigger message.

I've noticed that the more sutras I read, the more patterns I can see, and those patters I think carry the real Buddhist message, not so much the particular text.

Wednesday, September 10, 2008

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Level8

I believe Sangharakshita said somewhere that Buddhism shouldn't be about confirming your beliefs, it should be undermining them (or something to that effect). Basically the views most of us have are received through social and cultural influences, and are, on the whole, wrong views. Ideally we should be working our way out of having views. Ironically many Buddhists become almost insanely attached to doctrines and will argue endlessly about what they mean, and how other people have misunderstood them.

I like the idea that the message is in the patterns rather than the specific text. I think you have a good point here. It is important to read, and to study(!), widely and to reflect on the whole. My own criteria is to reflect on whether a practice or activity has had a positive influence on my ethical practice.

However there are certain messages that occur very infrequently or even only once - perhaps due to quirks of history or even editorial policy. I'm thinking in particular of the message called by Bhikkhu Bodhi "Transcendental Dependent Arising" and variously by Sangharakshita "spiral conditionality, positive nidanas, etc". What a different Buddhist doctrine we might have had but this teaching was buried and forgotten. One might also cite the down playing of mettā by Pāli texts, which is not mirrored in other canons.

Jayarava

Thursday, September 11, 2008

Blogger AdamZ Blog said...

Hi there! Wow, glad I found this blog...some really wonderful posts here. This one certainly stirs some emotion for me, as I remember reading about when Buddha supposedly 'grudingly' lets his step-mother and aunt take vows. For some reason I would think a fully-enlightened being would be more...I dunno...Enlightened. I'm guessing cultural bias of the time...
Thanks again for posting this.
~Adam

Thursday, September 25, 2008

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Adam

Thanks for your comments. Have you seen this post? Women and Ordination. I think it's clear that the Buddha was not a grudging as he was later made out to be.

Thursday, September 25, 2008

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