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Blogger mufi said...

Jayarava: I find myself comparing your use of these terms to other uses that I've seen recently.

For example, just in the past week, philosopher of science Massimo Pigliucci wrote: "...physicalism itself isn’t a logical necessity, it just happens to be the best (in the specific sense of most fecund) metaphysical approach to understanding the world", and neurologist/scientific-skeptic Steven Novella wrote: "The dualists are simply wrong when they say the materialist paradigm is dead. They are making this up. Neuroscientists are happily ignoring the dualists, and proceeding as if the mind is what the brain does. They are searching for neuroanatomical correlates of mental function, secure in the premise that everything the mind does must be happening in the brain. So far this approach has been fantastically successful."

Perhaps the situation is just as the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy says it is, whereby "...the words ‘materialism’ and ‘physicalism’ are now often interpreted as interchangeable" - despite their "very different histories" - even among professionals, who normally choose their words carefully.

Semantics aside, I greatly appreciate your insights into how the epistemology of Buddhist thinkers (generally) differs from that of Western thinkers, and on how that difference bears on the practice of ontology.

Friday, August 08, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Hi Mufi

I started writing this one to try to sort out in my own mind what there terms meant, partly because they're used polemically against me quite regularly. Clearly there is some ambiguity even amongst those who work within the kinds of paradigms described. If we all think carefully about how we use these kinds of terms more clarity might emerge.

I agree that it's of great important to disentangle Buddhist approaches to epistemology especially, since they have important practical consequences for how we approach practice. By being clear about what kind of knowledge we can attain, we might seek for it more efficiently (I hope). We aren't competing with physics or biology, or if we are we're just wasting our time.

Cheers
Jayarava

Friday, August 08, 2014

Blogger Jonathan Montesinos said...

Thanks for posting this. I had to read it a couple of times to fully understand it. I'm an engineer and never was into philosophy until a couple of years ago. I liked buddhism since it was aligned to what I had pieced out until that moment. I started by reading some books about most of the philosophies to get a critical standpoint too but wasn't able to find the bedrock. It was all so deep and I never felt truly confident where I was standing. That link to SEP has made my day since I believe is the best place to start. So delicious I can almost taste it, I got so much to read. Thank you!

Regards from Peru and sorry for my poor english.
JM

Tuesday, August 12, 2014

Blogger LY said...

I got a lot out of this essay.

I've read some Popper, Kuhn, and Feyerabend, and I'd wish more would do the same, especially those engaging with how science works.

As for the "Scientism", I'm reminded of this comic: "Purity" - http://xkcd.com/435/. I would say the Neolibertarians have a very strong sense of science or physics envy. The flip side is that scientists, programmers, engineers, etc. aren't good at solving certain problems. For example, see "Solve the Hard Problem" presentation at HOPE conference (who also references the same XKCD comic) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnysvxgjSvU.

Also, extra points for the Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal reference - I have a copy of that collected book.

Friday, August 22, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

One of the reasons I don't like Brian Cox (the pretty boy of science presenters) is that he constantly references the kind of hierarchical model from the xkcd comic. He sounds so insecure when he's putting other fields down. He sounds most insecure when putting pseudo-science down. Being a physics geek has not worked that well for him I think.

Perhaps because my first degree is in chemistry and because I had a hard choice between that and biology, and I always did physics papers as well, I've never thought that way. I'm not sure that many scientists do, though B.Cox is one.

Neolibertarians attempt to solve their science envy with the pseudo-science of Game Theory. The assumptions game theorists make about human beings are gross and distorted, obsessed and deranged. I think Game Theory fundamentally reflects the madness of the founder figure David Nash whose mind wasn't so beautiful after all.

I started watching the video, but the level of waffle is so high that after 10 minutes I gave up. Sure we're not good at solving certain problems, but most people don't even understand how reasoning works so its no surprise. She seems to be taking the xkcd chart far too seriously. It's a joke, not a useful model.

Friday, August 22, 2014

Blogger LY said...

Over-generalizing John Nash's Nobel-winning work on non-cooperative games is where the trouble begins. In contrast, I attended a talk by him at Bell Labs on "Non-Zero-Sum Cooperative Game Theory" (it has application to computer networks). There's no closed mathematical solution, and the best people can do is run many computer simulations of very simple games.

As for the video, it was a presentation at HOPE (Hackers on Planet Earth) X conference, so you may imagine the target audience, the type of people who do take the XKCD chart seriously (such as her boyfriend, who she nicknames as Comp. Sci.).

Friday, August 22, 2014

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