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Blogger Swanditch said...

http://imgur.com/kZZf2kn

Friday, June 21, 2013

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Exactly!

Friday, June 21, 2013

Blogger Michael Dorfman said...

Very thought-provoking (along with your other articles on Metaphors and Materialism.)

I'm still a bit reluctant to draw the dichotomy you propose too finely; I think that all explanation is ultimately an act of interpretation, and all interpretation is built upon explanation-- as you know, there is no such thing as a purely neutral description. But, without a doubt, different disciplines and approaches put different emphases on the two sides.

I found this video to draw a different, but possibly relevant dichotomy, which might be interesting to align with the others(spirit/matter, descriptive/interpretive, etc.) you've discussed.

Monday, July 01, 2013

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

It's not my distinction it is Lawson and McCauley's. Better read the book before disagreeing with them. I certainly see the distinction in the people around me so I'm convinced. It provides both explanation and accurate prediction in my experience - which is why I'm repeating it.

Yeah, I watched the video some time ago - I went through an RSA phase (still a link to them on my blog). I don't really recall much of it except that the usual two brain model is over-simplified and mostly wrong.

Monday, July 01, 2013

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

I should also point out that where I see the interpretation/explanation dichotomy as real, I see the matter/spirit distinction as false. Also the mind/body distinction I see as false, in the sense that most people use it to propose disembodied minds.

Monday, July 01, 2013

Blogger Michael Dorfman said...

I wasn't disagreeing with Lawson and McCauley, at least not intentionally so-- as I said, I think the dichotomy they discuss is very useful (and I look forward to reading their work.) What I was stating was something I only assume they take into account in their work, since it is more or less a truism: that there is no "neutral perspective" from which to do explanation-- "all facts are theory-laden" is the standard formulation of this, although the notion goes back to Nietzsche, at least-- and that all interpretations rely on some (explicit or implicit) description of the facts. Neither of those points undercuts their work (at least, I certainly hope it doesn't!) or the usefulness of the dichotomy.

The RSA video does indeed spend the first half explaining that the usual two-brain model is over-simplified and mostly wrong, but then goes on to propose a different (more modest) two-brain model based on observation of birds and other smaller animals. The distinction here is between tasks involving situations where the parameters are largely known (i.e., choosing seeds from among gravel in the most effective manner) and situations where the parameters are largely unknown (i.e., keeping an eye out for predators which may come from anywhere, in many forms.)

This distinction (between closed systems, which are simplified and structured, and open systems, which are open-ended and resist systemization) seemed interesting to me, especially when applied to the descriptive/interpretive dichotomy you outlined, and the various ways that metaphors (including those of false dichotomies) influence our thoughts.

I'm not trying to rebut anything-- I just see a lot of overlapping interesting ideas here, and am trying to work through how they might (or might not) fit together.

Tuesday, July 02, 2013

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