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Blogger JonJ said...

Very interesting text; thanks very much for the translation.

The admonition against trying to get to heaven is particularly interesting; I haven't seen that idea in any other Buddhist texts, at least in such a clear expression. That in itself apparently eliminates 90% of most people's religious aspiration in this culture, and probably others!

Saturday, June 19, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi JonJ

Yes. I think the idea of a creator god is lampooned in many places, but the idea of practising in order to get into heaven may well be unique. I'll have a poke around and see if I can see any others.

Regards
Jayarava

Saturday, June 19, 2010

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if I understand correctly the text says that we should allow Karma to take it course. Yet we are not to be the agents of Karma? Is my understanding correct? I am sure that you can you see how this would relate to a criminal justice system? Should there not be a criminal justice system or should Buddhists just not take part in it? Not taking part in a criminal justice system would be consistent, or should I dare say even required with a pacifist philosophy. So will not having a criminal justice system relieve suffering? Is there room for pragmatism on this issue?
Curt

Sunday, June 20, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Curt

I had not thought of this text relating to karma at all. And I would say that the issue of justice is entirely unrelated to this post. If you are intending to comment on a previous post please comment on the post in question. Thanks, Jayarava

Sunday, June 20, 2010

Anonymous David Chapman said...

I'm curious about "no sex and no sexuality in Buddhist heaven" -- wondering which Buddhism(s) and which heaven(s) you had in mind.

The Buddhist Tantras are generally set in "heavens" that consist mainly of vast non-stop orgies; and the Buddha delivers the text of the Tantra whilst having sex.

Tantra is anomalous of course. But my vague recollection is that in the Mahayana scriptures, some "heavens" also involve sex. The heaven of the "form realm" devas, for example.

I have just done a little googling to see if I could find references for that, and found instead that Buddhist conceptions of "heaven" appear to be hopelessly contradictory and confused. (As with almost any point of Dharma, they have been elaborated by many different sects in different places and times.)

Anyway... By "no sex" you also meant "no male or female beings"? And that would seem to be true only of the Formless Realm? Which seems to have been pretty much a theoretical abstraction. In terms of the imagination and practice of actual Buddhists, "gods" were/are almost always centrally important, and imagined as male or female. And in later Mahayana & Tantra, important gods get their own personal heavens, to which one can aspire to be reborn in.

Obviously I don't take any of this seriously as cosmology. But I think it's important in terms of what Buddhists should aspire to. Particularly, extinguishing desire for sex is a goal for some forms of Buddhism, but definitely not for others.

Monday, June 21, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi David

It's a fair question.

I had in mind the heavens referred to in the text I was translating, i.e. the devalokas and the brahmalokas as they are understood in the Pāli. As far as I know the beings there are androgynous. When commenting I try to stay at one level, unless I am deliberately following an historical thread. Otherwise the mutual contradictions become confusing.

But I also had in the back of my mind the pure lands of Amitābha et al where there is no sex, and people are born spontaneously in lotus flowers. I have not come across the Mahāyāna texts you refer to, perhaps you could be more specific?

I wouldn't say that Tantra is anomalous, but you are right to say that it has a different attitude to sex. I'm more familiar with the Tantra of Japan where the sexual yoga is not so prominent - absent in many cases. There are disagreements on whether to take the sexual yoga as literal or symbolic. I think the idea in Tantra is that the sexual urges, along with other emotions such as anger, disgust, grasping, etc are sublimated and the energy involved transformed into vīrya (which btw is cognate with 'virile'), which is then used to transcend such dichotomies.

If you read about the sexual yogas, say in the Hevajra Tantra which has been translated into English, then it does not read like an orgy, or indeed as indulging in sex for pleasure or procreation. One is harnessing the intense emotion and feelings towards the goal of liberation, one is not simply fucking. It's worth getting hold of the Hevajra and reading through it to get a clearer picture (to the extent the text is clear) of how sex is used in these practices. I think the New Age ideas about Tantra and sex (i.e. simply using techniques to enhance pleasure) have muddied the waters considerably. Even in the sexual yoga's one is not pursuing simply pleasure, but the Mahāsukha, the Great Bliss, the ultimate pleasure. And part of the process is to break taboos, especially sexual taboos. So, as a for instance, you might find yourself, having just watched your guru and consort having sex, ingesting their combined sexual fluids as a consecration. Then you get to have sex with your consort yourself - a woman whose touch you consider to be deeply repulsive and physically polluting. This would be deeply ritually polluting in mainstream Indian culture - shockingly so. And it would require long ritual purification. One also partakes of other polluting substances and practices (drinking alcohol, eating meat etc). So you have to overcome your deep conditioning in the process. Of course this context doesn't apply in many other cultures, so sexual yoga hardly makes sense elsewhere and elsewhen.

That whole area is rather complex and convoluted and I usually don't go there.

Anyway I hope that's answered the question you asked.

Best Wishes
Jayarava

Monday, June 21, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Curt,

Please refer to my comments policy. Your comments are way off topic. I don't have the time, energy, or inclination for that kind of online discussion.

Jayarava

Monday, June 21, 2010

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