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Blogger Ashin said...

"adukkhamasukhampi vedanaṃ" is usually translated as "neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling" or "neutral feeling". Your usage of "vague" is very interesting and thought provoking. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind explaining your thoughts on this choice.

Thank you.

Friday, March 26, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Ashin

Good question. It was an interesting phase of the translation process - and translating always involves making lots of (sometimes unenviable) choices. My thinking was that if we are unable to categorise a feeling as pleasant or unpleasant it's usually because we aren't paying it enough attention. There are very few sensations that are genuinely neither.

The text states that the ordinary person is "caught up in" feelings which are adukkhamsukkha and I wondered about that in practice - how does one get caught up in feelings which are neither pleasant nor painful? Surely they would not hold one's attention long enough to be caught up in them. And it occurred to me that we can get caught up in an alienated state of not knowing what our experience is - and I thought vagueness conveyed something of that.

I was also thinking of the idea of a predisposition to ignorance (avijjānusayo). Part of this is not understanding the sweetness and bitterness (assādañca ādīnavañca) of experience, and although the text does not directly relate the two I was thinking that part of the problem with not understanding the outcome of reacting to experience, is that we are a bit vague about what experience is, or what experience we are having.

Lastly I was trying to get away from phrases which, though they preserve the Pāli syntax, are not very good English and "neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling" is a classic example! Neutral feeling is fine as far as it goes, but what does it mean practice? Are feelings ever really neutral, or do we just ignore them?

I hope that helps.

Best Wishes
Jayarava

Friday, March 26, 2010

OpenID diaryofanunbornwriter said...

Great post.

Sunday, March 28, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

diaryofanunbornwriter

Thanks. It's personally relevant at the moment!

Jayarava

Sunday, March 28, 2010

OpenID topologicalmusings said...

This is indeed a great post! It does help in clarifying some of the issues concerning suffering and pain, which we usually take to be synonymous. And, I think the content of the post has a direct bearing on one's practice.

Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Topologicalmusings (is that Todd or Vishal?)

Thanks for your comment. Yes I think these kinds of distinctions are important to practice in that they show us where to focus. While one should avoid unnecessary physical pain, it is one's relationship to unavoidable pain that is often the working ground of Buddhist practice.

Had a look at your blog but it's a bit over my head. I liked the story about the maths student and the Ayatollah though!

Best Wishes
Jayarava

Tuesday, March 30, 2010

OpenID topologicalmusings said...

Hi Jayarava,

It was me, Vishal! My practice is more Theravada oriented (Mahasi-style noting.) Todd, by the way, used to be a lot into Zen before, though I am not sure how much now.

Indeed, your post contains valuable knowledge on where to focus or bring one's attention to and where not to during practice (by which I mean, everyday practice and not just sitting practice.) Many people tend to (wrongly) think of enlightenment as resulting in an emotionally sanitized person, thereby, unconsciously developing distorted views of the Buddha's teachings. This "trap" is something that I myself fell into before for a long time. As your post explicates, nothing could be further from the truth.

Indeed, our blog is geared toward mathematics mostly. So, it tends to be technical. I am glad you liked the 'Ayatollah vs math student' story!

Btw, I really enjoy reading your blog.

Best,
Vishal

Wednesday, March 31, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Thanks again Vishal :-)

Wednesday, March 31, 2010

Blogger Ashin said...

Thank you.

Wednesday, March 31, 2010

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