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Blogger Buddhist_philosopher said...

"I think the Buddha was an empirical realist - he has no explicit quarrel with the idea that there are objects of the senses, but he has nothing definite or positive to say about such objects or their natures."

What about Dhamma itself though? The Buddha seems to say things about Dhamma as an existent reality independent of any of his experience (I trust you know these).

Just curious about what your thoughts are on those. Thanks!

Saturday, March 14, 2009

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Justin,

I'm not sure which passages you are referring to. However I know the general territory. Ontology is about what exists. Things. Principles, say for instance the laws of physics can't be said to 'exist' in the same way. Dhamma is a principle.

What's more if you have been following my argument you will know that I consider the Dharma to apply to the mind, not to the (external) world. As I am emphasising above I don't think the Buddha had much to say about the world, although he does seem to acknowledge that there are 'things' that we are aware 'of'.

I think you could look for a long time and find no Pāli equivalent of the words "existent reality independent of experience". "The Dhamma" (as opposed to just dhammas) seems to me to refer to paṭiccasamuppāda which in my view describes the way that mental phenomena (dhammas) arises in the mind. It is a general principle that seems to hold good for all of the content of our minds and as a general principle one can find many variations on how it is applied. Not just 12 nidanas, for instance, but sometimes 10, or 14; and only four Ariyasacca.

Perhaps there is a branch of ontology that deals with principles and ordering forces which I am unaware of?

Now all of this holds for early Buddhism, but begins to break down later in the history of Buddhist Ideas. By the time the idea of the Mahāyāna idea of the Dharmakāya becomes firmly established then it does seem to have some 'existence'. I'm quite fond of Kūkai's exegesis on this question. To Kūkai all forms were the body of the Dharmakāya, all sounds its voice, and all mental activity its mind. At first glance it is eternalistic, but the underlying idea is that it is all equivalent to śūnyatā so I think it works and is quite a beautiful notion.

Anyway do let me know if you had specific Pāli passages in mind.

Best wishes
Jayarava

Saturday, March 14, 2009

Blogger DarkDream said...

I think you have made some important points here. I don't think the Buddha was all concerned about ontology but epistomology.

I think people sometimes misunderstand that the the three characteristics are philosophical metaphysical explanations of reality. No, it is the experience of reality.

I am not a fan of Bhikkhu Bodhi for various reasons. To me he represents a fundamentalist of the Therevada tradition that is very close minded.

Just an example take a look at his childish response given in a review to Gombrich's book, "How Buddhism Began" (http://www.buddhistethics.org/4/bodhi1.html):

"To my mind, the texts of the four Nikāyas form a strikingly consistent and harmonious edifice, and I am confident that the apparent inconsistencies are not indicative of internal fissuring but of subtle variations of method that would be clear to those with sufficient insight."

"Sufficient Insight?" Gombrich is one of the leading Buddhist scholars of the world who has spent over 40 years studying it.

Another thing that he doesn't even meditate due to headaches!

--DarkDream

Saturday, March 14, 2009

Blogger Jayarava said...

While I think it is useful to critique specific statements made by leading translators as I am doing here, I am uncomfortable with generalised and sweeping denouncements. We all owe Bhikkhu Bodhi a debt of gratitude for his excellent translations from the Pāli, including clear contemporary English, and fulsome notes. I may not agree with all of his exegesis but I am in awe of his scholarship and energy. I only wish I could be more like him!

On the other hand I've met, and occasionally correspond with Richard Gombrich and have found him generous and extremely insightful about Buddhist doctrine. However he is neither a Buddhist nor a meditator. Also he is open to criticism on many fronts as anyone familiar with the scholarly literature would know. In fact he is a favourite target of criticism in some quarters as a figure-head for conservative views! I admire and respect him greatly, but there is nothing sacrosanct about his views.

Let's stick to your views about what I've written and leave off bad mouthing our betters in public. It's unseemly and I won't publish any more such comments.

Regards
Jayarava

Saturday, March 14, 2009

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