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Blogger Jason said...

Wow, great article, I really enjoyed this one.

I hadn't realised that the story of Kisagotami was commentarial rather than canonical - it's such a great story. What was it commentating on, if anything? Or was it a generalised (ie fictional) story to illustrate the point?

On the other hand, the Piyajatika Sutta is canonical. Yet, the protagonist is (possibly) exposed as a "straw man" and "the Buddha was [not] literally so unsympathetic". Why was the Sutta written in this way? I infer that this, like Kisagotami, is designed to illustrate a particular teaching at the expense of historical accuracy. Therefore, what defines the distinction between a "commentarial" story and a "canonical" sutta?

Thanks!

Tuesday, October 21, 2008

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Jason,

Yes I thought you might like this one :-)

There are also canonical stories of Kisāgotamī. The Dictionary of Pāli Names has a list of references to Kisāgotamī.

Your question is a good one. And the answer is that it seems to be somewhat arbitrary what is considered canonical and what is not. Something is canonical if it is included in one of the traditional collections of texts.

If we compare the Pāli texts with parallels surviving in other languages (chiefly Chinese, but some Sanskrit and Gāndhārī, and a small number in Tibetan) then it seems that the Pāli Canon was closed before the others. For instance some things which are not canonical in Pāli are canonical in Sanskrit. Of course there are simply regional and/or sectarian differences as well - there were a number of early Buddhist schools each with there own canon.

We also can be fairly certain that post-canonical editing was rife. Some of it was very clumsy and stands out like dogs' balls. And if the canon can be edited then in what sense is it canonical?

It's clear that the texts evolved over a period of time and that the closing of the canon happened at various times in different areas, seemingly arbitrary. It does seem to have happened before the texts were written down, so we can't blame the concretising effect of writing.

If we fast forward a bit then China and Tibet also have their own Canons - also called tripitaka. These are vastly bigger than the Pāli Canon because they include Mahāyāna texts, and even Tantric texts. These are clearly from a much later date but are considered by the traditions to have the same status as early texts - everything was taught by the Buddha. Variations exists in other countries where Mahāyāna Buddhism took root. The Japanese Canon includes works by Kūkai - a 9th century tantric master.

So canon is actually a fairly loose term when used in Buddhism, and we do need to be a bit careful about it.

The Buddha apparently said that anything that helped you evolve, in the spiritual sense, was the Dharma.

Cheers
Jayarava

Tuesday, October 21, 2008

Blogger Jason said...

"The Buddha apparently said that anything that helped you evolve, in the spiritual sense, was the Dharma"

I guess that's the important bit :)

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this.

Jason.

Friday, October 24, 2008

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