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Blogger Ratnaprabha said...

Very useful, this article and your hard work much appreciated. With metta, Ratnaprabha

Friday, November 15, 2013

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Hi Ratnapraha - thanks. Most of the hard work was done by PH. Anyway, long time no see. Hope you're well. J

Friday, November 15, 2013

Blogger Administrator said...

Fascinating article.
Even Kumarajiva's Chin-kang ching that is widely circulating today has undergone much addition and alteration, especially post-Ming editions.

Like certain Sanskrit manuscript(s), Kumarajiva's original text seems to lack some "tenocyate" clauses, e.g. at the end of §8 tenocyante buddhadharmā iti (是名佛法 in some edns. from the beginning of Ch'ing period, but doesn't appear in most circulating ones, nor in any edition of Chinese Tripitaka);
§13 tenocyate prajñāpāramiteti (是名般若波羅蜜 doesn't appear in any edns. of Chinese Tripitaka);
at §14 the common edition has 是名忍辱波羅蜜, which doesn't appear in any edns. of Chinese Tripitaka (and it seems neither in any Sanskrit manuscripts which usually have only: api tu khalu punaḥ, subhūte, yā tathāgatasya kṣāntipāramitā, saiva apāramitā).

There are many more ...

Tuesday, November 19, 2013

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Thanks for that.

Tuesday, November 19, 2013

Blogger Qianxi said...

There's an interesting puzzle on the subject of negation in the Diamond sutra and its Chinese translation. The puzzle concerns the last phrase of this passage here: https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=record&view=record&vid=22&mid=115129

Harrison's English
[a Boddhisattva] should not conceive an aspiration which is fixed in anything at all.

For some reason Kumarajiva has it
[a Boddhisattva] should conceive an aspiration that is not fixed in anything at all.
應無所住而生其心

ie. Kumarajiva negated "fixed" instead of "conceive" (unfortunately I don't know Sanskrit).

This may seem a small issue but this eight character phrase became famous as that which the Zen patriarch Huineng heard and achieved enlightenment (or if not enlightenment, it was what encouraged him to become a monk, I don't remember the detail).

There's an interesting discussion in Chinese on this in the comments to this blog post http://yifertw.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/414-418.html

The feeling seems to be that Kumarajiva's negating 'fixed' instead of 'conceive' would be strange if the Sanskrit he was working from was the same as we have it today. In the previous phrases with parallel grammatical structure he negates the 'right' verb according to the Sanskrit as we have it. It's just the concluding phrase that he changes into a grammatical structure that is not parallel to the preceding ones.

It seems more than a misunderstanding or a mistake. Perhaps deliberate naturalisation for ease of comprehension for Chinese audience, or a gloss rather than a translation, or a different Indic version.

But I think the lack of parallelism suggests that Kumarajiva's phrase may be later than the version translated by Harrison. Also Kumarajiva's phrase is a positive recommendation for action rather than a prohibition. This is out of keeping with the context.

Thursday, January 16, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

This one is fairly straightforward. The Sanskrit says: na kvacit pratiṣṭhitaṃ cittam utpādayitavyam

What is negated here is the future passive participle: utpādayitavyaṁ 'should be produced'. So it means that "a citta should not be produced which is fixed in anything." Harrison's text is from about 3 or 4 centuries after Kumārajiva. Conze's edition has much the same. However, the context confirms that this is the intended meaning. Also it is natural reading of the text which goes on in this vein at some length.

Thursday, January 16, 2014

Blogger Qianxi said...

'So it means that "a citta should not be produced which is fixed in anything."'

Thanks. That agrees with Harrison and with the comments on that Chinese blogpost that in [most/all?] Indic versions it is the 'utpādayitavya/ should produce/should conceive' that is negated.

The weird thing is that in Kumarajiva's version it is the 'pratiṣṭhita/fixed' that is negated. So:

"a citta should be produced which is not fixed in anything."

@@@@@@@
Actually, looking again, the Kumarajiva translation of the last phrase has not come out of thin air. It is very close to the meaning of the Sanskrit first phrase in that paragraph on the Bibliotheca polyglotta website.

https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=record&view=record&vid=22&mid=115129

...cittam utpādayitavyaṃ apratiṣṭhitaṃ
Harrison: ...should conceive an aspiration in such a way that it is unfixed.

Mystery over I guess. A phrase transposed sometime during transmission is much easier to explain than a phrase out of the blue, or an outright misunderstanding from such a great translator. I suppose I should remember to look at the wider context next time.

That biblioteca poliglotta website is very useful.

Thursday, January 16, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Are you quite sure that Kumārajīva is using Chinese syntax and not Sanskrit syntax? In my very limited experience it is common to see the word order follow the Sanskrit original and thus subvert normal Chinese word order. Wong Mou-lam's translation from the Chinese (the only one I have to hand) matches my interpretation of the Sanskrit.

Thursday, January 16, 2014

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