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Blogger Tomek said...

Jayarava, thanks for this interesting piece. I agree with you, that MBT is not explicitly touted as an alternative or competitor to Buddhism. But I think that this emerging “folk religion”, as McMahan says, is not just a set of stress reduction techniques helping people with chronic pain. It is also another manifestation of this romantic reaction against scientific disenchantment of the world. In short, it is a cult of a fetishized “Present Moment”. What it tries to sell is the “Now.” The same “Now,” of which Metzinger says in his BNO as follows: “Although we subjectively experience ourselves as in direct and immediate contact with the <>, all empirical data tell us that, strictly speaking, all conscious experience is a form of memory.”

I would also add that this cult of the “Now” is a bastardized version of the twentieth century phenomenologists effort to, as in The Making … says McMahan, “reclaim things from their merely instrumental value (…) to reestablish the primordial intimacy between persons and objects in their everyday interactions. (p. 220)

So all in all, on the first sight it might really look that it is not “an alternative or competitor to Buddhism” but at a closer inspection it seems to provide a much more suited myth of a this worldly liberation than a transcendental Buddhists version of it which is unimaginable for a lay person today.

Friday, February 21, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Hi Tomek

Thanks for your comment. Anyone who quotes Metzinger is always welcome :-)

I'd just say that for a "folk religion" mindfulness has a shit load of scientific papers backing it up. Nearly 6000 on PlosOne! So to me "folk religion" is a kind of bitchy diminutive designed to plaster over an inconvenient truth.

I'm not sure where you get all this "cult of now" stuff from. I know quite a few mindfulness teachers and that's not what they're on about as far as I can tell. I don't know anyone who fetishises "now". Most of the Mindfulness people are plugged into Metzinger or at least Damasio who popularised the idea on the basis of his research. They know these models of consciousness. But remember that Metzinger is arguing against phenomenology most of the time: he says we are naive realists and that how things seem is not how they are. This is interesting, but most of the time we only have access to how things seem and even with close attention we don't see through the walls of the ego tunnel. Indeed Metzinger says this is impossible - he only knows more from studying the way that the sense of self breaks down. By carefully cross referencing all the errors of the self-model he can define it's dimensions and functions, but he still cannot see beyond it in his own first-person experience. Whatever consciousness is in fact, we only know how we experience it. And this was the Buddha's point in the first place. Especially in my root text the Kaccānagotta Sutta.

The approach of examining experience is very much older than the 20th century. McMahan is in danger of sounding like a man whose only tool is a hammer: everything starts to look like a nail. Examining experience is the technique par excellence of Buddhism. Such a phenomenological approach is central to all of early Buddhism and is epitomised by the Abhidharmikas. To say this is just a modern trend is to be ignorant of Buddhist history. There *is* Buddhism in Buddhist Modernism.

My preceptor and chief mentor in the Triratna Order now teaches mindfulness for a living. He and his wife cannot run enough classes in their area. And in each class there is one person who finds all this 'watching your experience' stuff really fascinating and wants to go deeper. So they have a little sangha building up of people fascinated by experience instead of bogged down in all the supernatural bullshit and top heavy doctrine that comes with Buddhism. My sense is that this is the future of Buddhism (which probably contradicts what I said above, but such is life).

Mindfulness as taught by Buddhist MBT practitioners may well be to 21st century Western Buddhism what Zen was to Japanese Buddhism in the 13th century.

Friday, February 21, 2014

Blogger Tomek said...

Jayarava, if you are really interested to know where I get the whole idea of this “cult of now” have a look at this paper (link below) and compare the ubiquitous element of the so called “present moment” in the rhetorics of mindfulness movement to what one of the main figures of this text – W. Sellars – dubbed “the myth of the given.” I claim that those “present moment” or “here and now” memes are just a vulgarized versions of the “myth of the given” or better “unexplained explainer” which was a symptom of a reaction against naturalism and science that came out from the camp of XX century phenomenologists/idealists like Husserl, Heidegger, Merleau-Ponty and others. In the paper Brassier writes that “the myth of the given [is] the idealist attempt to ground ‘originary’ intentionality in transcendental consciousness. Consciousness construed as originary condition of givenness becomes an unexplained explainer. This brand of transcendental idealism is inimical to naturalism, since if consciousness is the originary condition of objectivation, of which science is one instance, it follows that science cannot investigate consciousness.” (p. 9) This transcendental consciousness and its folk versions like “present moment” or “here and now,” etc., become a contemporary fetishes – weak versions of the soul - that provide their worshipers a safe haven from the potentially depressing conclusions of contemporary science. Hence the crypto-religious flavor of the “cult of now”.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxidWRkeXptaXBzeWNob3RlcmFwaWF8Z3g6NWZkNWU0YjE2NzhhOGJmZQ

Friday, February 21, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Tomek

Of course one can read it that way. Or one can take a Buddhist perspective. Not being educated in Western philosophy I don't see the parallels from that sphere. I don't even see them as particularly important as the influence on Eastern thinking begins to be syncretised by those very thinkers and it confuses the issues. But I certainly do see people teaching Buddhist ideas.

I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this.

Friday, February 21, 2014

Blogger Jan said...

Bravo! Wow, tell it like it is! I am thoroughly enjoying this stream of commentary to the original post. We can only approach "modern" Buddhism keeping in mind that humans interpret everything that we hear, read and see and have done since humans started thinking. This interpretation takes on individual nuances in each case. Remembering that each of us does this is crucial. Only then can we realistically consider historical Buddha and any teachings at all.

Saturday, February 22, 2014

Blogger Adam Cope said...

As you say "Commodification is the historical norm from the earliest textual and archaeological records. " Relics were amongst the first major commodification of the Buddha cult:

"According to the ancient Sanskrit text, the Mahaparinirvana-sutra, the Buddha himself gave detailed instructions for the cremation of his body and the preservation of his relics. He apparently died in the kingdom of the Mallas of Kushinagara and they performed the final rites and ceremonies as he had sanctioned. When word spread of the Buddha's death, seven of the clans from surrounding territories sent emissaries, each proclaiming his clan's right to a share of the relics. However the Mallas of Kushinagara responded by announcing their intention to keep all the relics for themselves, on the ground that the Buddha died in their territory. A brahmin named Drona intervened to ensure that all eight claimants received an equal share."

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_image.aspx?image=ps345984.jpg&retpage=16905

There was also a roaring trade in relics, as buddha cult spread out from India along the spice route, etc. All those stupas with the tooth or bone of the Tathagatha. Good for DNA cloning today?

Parallels to this veneration of commodities in Christianity : the local abbey near to me has two huge chains in the apse where the sweat clothe of Jesus used to hang in the medieval period as a great 'crowd puller', a major attraction on the Via Podiensis Compostella Way. Forensic scientists in the Twenthieth century found it to be of Twelfth century arabic origin and consequently, it was unhung. Now you see the two huge chains… hanging empty with nothing attached…and above, the written claim that here is Christ's sweat clothe. Faith in fakes!

Spiritual tourism generated good money. And it still does today.

Monday, February 24, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Hi Adam,

Good point. Trust the Brahmins to horn in! Diplomacy was their thing, though so it rings true.

Unfortunately if you cloned the tooth relic of Kandy you'd get a dog!

If only spiritual tourism generated money for the local people of India - Bodhgaya is so terribly poor and yet the place is full of palatial monasteries and hotels. Wonder where it does go? Buying Rolex watches for the Dalai Lama?

Monday, February 24, 2014

Blogger Ashley Jaden said...

I've enjoyed this essay, as well as "Commodification of the Self." Thank you for taking the time to organize and share your thoughts.

At the end of the second paragraph in this essay, you write: "It takes a particular personality and temperament to really take on the challenges involved [in obtaining liberation] and most of us are not up to it."

I would love to hear more about this. By "this," I guess, I'm really referring to two things.

First, what exactly do you mean by liberation? Enlightenment? Self-actualization? Ego death? All of the above plus other stuff too? And also what, in your opinion, are the major challenges people face in obtaining liberation?

Secondly, what personalities and temperaments do you feel are better suited for obtaining liberation and why?

I just discovered your blog and haven't really sifted through it yet. If you've already written on either topic, please direct me to those articles. I'd enjoy checking them out. Thanks!

Wednesday, June 17, 2015

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