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Blogger joseph said...

Thanks for your blog! Great work.

Perhaps his name was simply never known at all!

He may never have mentioned it to his Sangha, even in the very begging.

After all, he left all that behind long before his enlightenment, wandered far, had successive teachers, went of into the wilderness to practice austerities... even the original group of five may only have known him by a religious title or designation, and talk about ones worldly past was probably not encouraged!

The picture of the Buddhas former, worldly life that always sticks with me is him reminiscing about discovering the first Jhana, under a shady tree, watching his parents harvest the feild, it hardly sounds like the life of a "raja", but it sounds nice.

*I also like the way he tells Ananda that he needs to rest his aching back :) *

Perhaps Gotoma was an early Brahmin supporter after the enlightenment?

Friday, November 20, 2009

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Joseph,

Thanks for your comments. Yes I think you are right - he probably let go of his former identity when he went forth, though the story of his return home to see his father is quite moving.

As I recall the story of the first experience of jhana under the Roseapple tree his father was ploughing the field. This first ploughing was a traditional role for the king/leader in many societies as a kind of rite to ensure fertility. Indeed ploughing the furrows is used as a metaphor for sex in some Indian literature. By doing the first ploughing, the king - as the embodiment of the divine - ensures their productivity: he is the divine father impregnating the divine mother (earth).

As the stories have come down to us the Buddha never thought much of the hereditary Brahmins - they are often treated as a source of amusement. The Buddha in fact tried to redefine the word Brahmin to mean someone like himself, liberated from suffering, which when you think about it was a very radical thing to say to a 1000 year old tradition!

Thanks again
Jayarava

Friday, November 20, 2009

Blogger Jamie G. said...

Yeah... thanks for your blog. You are doing a great work.

Friday, November 20, 2009

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Jamie

I appreciate the thumbs up!

Jayarava

Friday, November 20, 2009

Blogger AlAiN said...

I always taught that the name Siddhārtha was just a title, rather than Śākyamuni's proper name. I never read anything critical about that information, so your pointers are welcome! I just had this idea that if Siddhatta is Siddhārtha, therefore meaning "accomplished purpose", then it makes even more sense as a title in the later context of Mahāyāna, where complete Awakening and teaching others towards Awakening is precisely the intent or purpose of a bodhisattva, even for you or me... I'm wondering if you have any new insight about this name ? Thanks, and I hope you had a great Būddha day.

Wednesday, May 18, 2011

Blogger Jayarava said...

@AlAiN The short answer is that I don't know. I haven't looked beyond the Pāli sources. But there were people in Pāli who's name was Siddhattha, just not our Gotama. Siddharth is a fairly common name in modern Hindi as well (try Googling it!). So there's no reason to assume that when the name was given that it wasn't a name, but a title. If I have time I'll see if I can locate some of the early Sanskrit sources to see whether the use the name.

In fact none of the epithets of the Buddha are likely to have been titles except bhagavan, and even that is more descriptive, meaning 'fortunate'. Words like arahant, buddha, tathāgata, and even bodhisattva are descriptions not titles. Though Śākyamuni is a title - the sage of the Śākyas - and I would be interested to know when it was first used as well. Not in Pāli.

I'm not sure where the idea of giving the Buddha titles comes from - they didn't have many titles in ancient India other than functional ones: rāja, mahārāja, mahāmatta. Titles suggest entirely the wrong kind of attitude to my ear. What use does someone with no delusions have for a title? I wonder whether we are influenced by European aristocratic history, or by the Tibetan practice of adopting the titles of the Roman Catholic ecclesiastical hierarchy?

Wednesday, May 18, 2011

Blogger Jayarava said...

@AlAiN I've appended a brief survey of some of the easily accessible early Mahāyāna Sūtras and their use of the name Śākyamuni to the end of the post.

Wednesday, May 18, 2011

Blogger AlAiN said...

Oh! great! Thanks for the quick and thoughtful response. As for title i get your drift and i certainly did not use this word as granted by a hierarchy, but even in french i'm at a loss for finding a better word, that would be a name conveying the respectful recognition of someone's qualities or accomplishments, such as those of the Victors. So… -honorific name, metonymic name ? ( !! > even here, respect and honor have dubious connotations.)

Wednesday, May 18, 2011

Blogger Jayarava said...

@AlAiN. Yes I see what you mean. I tend to opt for epithet "descriptive name for a person or thing".

Wednesday, May 18, 2011

Blogger AlAiN said...

Ther may be no need to publish this, as it's getting chatty, but i only knew epithet as a fancy equivalent for adjective and i now realize it's a calque like compassion and sympathy. This idea of metonymic name is making it's way in my mind, so i guess i would settle for metonym. A metonym would then refer to a particular quality of a person, replacing its name, rather than just being added. > I have yet to bother about knowing if Tathāgata is a metaphor or metonymy of Gautama ! (smiling)

Wednesday, May 18, 2011

Blogger Jayarava said...

@AlAiN. Chat is fine as long as it's on topic.

Every word in English is a calque - (very roughly speaking) 45% of our vocab is French, 45% is German - the other 10% is Latin, Greek, Hindi, Persian, Chinese etc.

You could say that 'Buddha' is a metonym - but then any descriptive name is to the extent that it focuses on one particular aspect. And is this not what all names do? But most English speaking people, I have found, aren't familiar with this word metonym (which is itself a calque from Latin: it is a) or it's Greek derived synonym 'synechdoche'. For such a common phenomena you might want to choose a word that is better known. Adjective, or description perhaps? Or just 'name'. But recall what Shakespeare said on the subject of names...

There is some confusion early on about what Tathāgata means - I wrote about it in a blog post Feb 2009. The original meaning probably was 'one who is like that', i.e. one who is in the state of nirodha, or nibbāna, or vimutti, etc.

Thursday, May 19, 2011

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