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Anonymous star again (sorry) said...

Interesting analysis.

In just the last few days I have been remarking on a quote that seems to be all over the internet, attributed to the Buddha (and apparently based on the Kalama story) "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense" which seems to have good intentions but I think misses the point when it has the Buddha being supportive of simple "reason" and "common sense". The original statement seems to be all about evidence in the form of direct experience, along with the balance of outside opinion supplied "by the wise" (and one can only tell who "the wise" are by direct experience, long experience at that).

I would have liked to see you use "aphorisms & parables" in your translation, since it seems more suggestive of a long lineage of these things being handed on than "quotation & story" does. The former also has more of the sense of "a collection" I think, than does the latter.

I have a question, though, about your statement about "piṭaka" that: "It's not clear when this term came to mean 'a collection of writings' - the usage seems to me to be Buddhist, so for example, the Vedas use different terminology for collections of texts."

What do you mean by "the usage seems...to be Buddhist"?

Also, at the end you say, "All of my translations can be justified on etymological grounds..." but I think the support for your translation of "ākāraparivitakkena" as "the study of signs" is a little shaky. We find both "ākāraparivitakkena" and "diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā" together in SN 35.153 Atthinukhopariyāya Sutta (PTS vol iv p 139) in a description of how to interpret internal examination of lust, hatred, or delusion (or lack thereof) arising from the conjunction of (for example) form and eye, and that our conclusions will not be based on faith or personal preference or "ākāraparivitakkena" or "diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā" and it doesn't seem particularly logical that divination or reading of signs -- at least in the classical understanding of those words -- would be used in interpreting those sorts of observations. I do often suspect the Buddha of being playful with the way he interprets "interpreting signs" (more as "reading people" than as a mystical art) but I wouldn't imagine he'd have been using such humor either in the Atthinukhopariyāya Sutta or while talking to the Kalamas.

Overall, though, great work and insight. This sutta needs to be brought to mind often and clearly. It still amazes me how important the Buddha's message is here, and how keenly he states it, using few words to say quite a lot about what we should and shouldn't rely on, with direct observation being what's absolutely critical.

Sunday, April 10, 2011

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Star,

No need for apologies. Yes. I also see the Kālāma Sutta being misquoted and misunderstood across the Buddhist world. I doubt I will have done much to change that situation, but at least you and I seem reasonably clear ;-)

With piṭaka I was wondering when this apparently agricultural metaphor came into use. It's not used in Vedic texts so far as I can see. So it seems to only be Buddhists who use it. But do you need a word for a container of texts if you don't have written texts? And this text itself was ostensibly composed orally... a mystery I think.

Sn 35.153 looks very interesting. I will read it closely as time allows. However even if your reading of it is correct my claim was to etymological soundness, not to practical usage (which is often a better guide admittedly!). My superficial reading of Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of Sn 35.153 seems not to shed any light on the term ākāraparivitakkena itself however, except that it is, once again, contrasted with personal experience.

Best Wishes
Jayarava

Sunday, April 10, 2011

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