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Blogger wildfox said...

Thank You for your beautifully written article on Metzinger's book. I see fun reading in my near future!

wildfox7

Monday, May 02, 2011

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi wildfox. Thanks, but as I say this blog post is not about his book.

Monday, May 02, 2011

Blogger Jayarava said...

On the new blog Speculative Non-Buddhism Glenn Wallis republishes this blog post and asks:

Do neuroscientific models of the person supplant classical Buddhist ones? Are the Buddhist models merely unsophisticated proto-scientific theories? If so, are there any compelling reasons to advocate for, much less adhere to, those models? What commends Buddhist views of the person in light of theories such as Metzinger’s?

I think Buddhist theories of the person and consciousness are best described as pre-scientific rather than proto-scientific. Proto-X suggests something that evolves into X. I suppose one might argue that Buddhist theories of the person are in the process of evolving into scientific theories. However I don't think Buddhist theories are the predecessors of scientific thinking. And of course the Buddhist theories are not unsophisticated.

It may be that the two ways of presenting the person will always be different because they serve different ends. They certainly employ very different methods to gather knowledge.

What I think is clear is that anyone interested in the mind has to engage with the findings of contemporary neuro-science because they shed light on our subject. Whether we adopt the interpretations of someone like Thomas Metzinger will depend on many factors, but at the basis of the Buddhist project is the idea that we through seeing through the process of how experiences arise we can be free of the suffering that the misunderstood process creates. We have to firstly try to understand what someone like Metzinger is saying; and then we need to examine it in the light of our project and our practice, and see if it is useful. My post was primarily about understanding Metzinger. Whether I adopt his view remains to be seen, though my initial reaction is that his model might be very useful if we can build in some opacity - if we can gain insights into the functioning of the Phenomenal Self Model through the kinds of techniques employed by Buddhists. As it stands however Metzinger specifically denies this as a possibility.

One might hope that at some point Metzinger's views on Buddhism will become more sophisticated so that we can find out how he thinks the two might interact - but with his present ignorance we can't rely on what he says about Buddhism at all.

Friday, May 06, 2011

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Note that Glenn Wallis tried to eliminate the evidence that he had once admired my writing and used this particular post on his blog. I write about our fraught relationship (such as it was) on my Google+ Wall.

Although the original post is gone from his blog, the page was archived: Thomas Metzinger and Jayarava on Being No One.

Friday, August 07, 2015

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