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Blogger Swanditch said...

Do you regard the eightfold path as an imperfect integration of ethical and meditational principles? Or as something else?

Saturday, March 15, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Hi Swanditch,

Sorry about the wait. The eightfold path has always struck me as bizarre - both in form and content. It's lumpy and unsystematic. I don't really know what to make of it. But my impression is that it is composite and imperfectly integrated, yes. Where else is the term saṅkhappa important for example? Nowhere.

If the EFP represents ethics, meditation and wisdom, then why does wisdom (right-view, right though) come first and meditation (right-effort, right-mindfulness, right-integration) last in the list? How does right-livelihood fit at all? Why are some aṅgas general (right-view) and others specific (right effort).

How did a list like that come to epitomise Buddhism? We'd have been much better off selecting one of the spiral path models for example which flow much better. AN 11.1 or 11.2 - they epitomise the Buddhist path so much better!

In fact now I think of it there are several entirely separate ethical models in Buddhism.

1. Ethics as practical preparation for meditation consists in practising sati, sampajanñña, yonisomanasikāra, hiri, ottapa, saṃvara, indriyesu gutta-dvāratā. Through these one attains pamodana and is ready to dwell in the jhanas and investigate dharmas as the condition for yathābhūtañānadassana. Described in about 40 Spiral Path texts, esp AN 11.1-5 (= AN 10.1-5) also found in MĀ 43-54 (now in translation by Numata). Call this Upari-magga

2. Ethics as condition for a better rebirth and ensuring the livelihood of paribbajikas. Cultivating puṇya through good ritual acts such as generosity to munis, ṛṣis, paribbajikas etc. This is a transformation of Vedic ethics. The sugati-magga - the path of good rebirth destinations.

2a. The sugati-magga is ethicised in AN 6.63 so that ritual action (karma) is superseded by intention (cetanā) as significant aspect (this is picked up by Nāgārjuna in chapter 17 of Mūlamadhyamaka Kārikā as the standard early Buddhist model of karma). Good intentions still create good karma, but not the aim is to cease being reborn. the sucetanā-magga 'the path of good intentions' or the apunabhava-magga 'the path of no rebirth'.

3. Ethics as skilful (kusala) acts of body, speech and mind (thus based on Zoroastrian morality) with a focus on good relations with other people in this life. The dasa kusala-kamma-patha and akusala counterparts. The kusala-magga.

4. Purification. Not so sure about this, but obviously we have the Visuddhi-magga which takes in all the aspects above. Purification as a metaphor is largely drawn from Vedic culture. This may in fact be a development of 2/2a.

5. Jātaka 'just so' stories in which being mean or generous in a past life, results in pain or pleasure in this one.

They all work in different ways to achieve different goals. All this work of one man? Or even one committee?

Thanks for your question as this seems like a significant insight. Will try to write it up more fully - but it will take some researching.

Friday, March 21, 2014

Blogger Swanditch said...

Thank you for a very interesting answer. I look forward to the fuller exposition. The relationship of ethics to practice and liberation interests me a great deal.

Sunday, March 23, 2014

Blogger Vishvapani said...

Hi Jayarava,

This is a very stimulating piece, but I have a couple of questions. In this article and also in 'The Unresolvable Plurality in Buddhist Doctrine', you ascribe the plurality of Buddhist ideas to the confluence of multiple cultural influences rather than that of a single founder. I don't disagree, and this becomes obvious for example in Chinese Mahayana. But I think you are equating singularity with having single founder. Might it not equally be that the Buddha himself offered teachings that were inconsistent?

Secondly, I would be grateful if you could explain why your account of ethics makes relatively mention of the notions of kusala/akusala which are, surely a link with patina sammupada?

Thanks, Vishvapani

Monday, March 24, 2014

Blogger Vishvapani said...

Hi Jayarava,

This is a very stimulating piece, but I have a couple of questions. In this article and also in 'The Unresolvable Plurality in Buddhist Doctrine', you ascribe the plurality of Buddhist ideas to the confluence of multiple cultural influences rather than that of a single founder. I don't disagree, and this becomes obvious for example in Chinese Mahayana. But I think you are equating singularity with having single founder. Might it not equally be that the Buddha himself offered teachings that were inconsistent?

Secondly, I would be grateful if you could explain why your account of ethics makes relatively mention of the notions of kusala/akusala which are, surely a link with patina sammupada?

Thanks, Vishvapani

Monday, March 24, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Hi Viśvapāṇi

I suppose a single inconsistent founder is a possibility. Not very satisfactory though, is it? A befuddled Buddha? But even then I would argue that he got his ethics from his tribe and his meditation practices from Jain and possibly Brahmin teachers. His vocabulary draws from royal courts, from the military, from nature metaphors common to all India, from a whole variety of sources.

I've been looking at specific teachings and the variations lately and I cannot believe they stem from one committee, let alone one person. This may be a result some centuries of being an oral culture before being committed to writing.

"Secondly, I would be grateful if you could explain why your account of ethics makes relatively mention of the notions of kusala/akusala which are, surely a link with patina sammupada?"

You must have been in a hurry when typing this. "Relatively *little* mention" perhaps? And linked with paṭiccasamuppāda?

The essay "Unresolvable Plurality in Buddhist Metaphysics?" is not an account of Buddhist ethics generally, but of a specific problem within Buddhist ethics. It assumes the broad outlines of early Buddhist ethics.

The problem is the disconnect between an ethic which emphasises personal responsibility for actions not limited to this life time, and a metaphysics of conditionality which undermines the notion of any explicit link between the one who acts and the one who suffers the consequences. Indeed we often undermine the very notion of an actor! Witness our comrade Vessantara who thinks we can all agree that "there is no self" and "no one dies". (Though I'm not sure I do agree, it's a fairly mainstream view).

Or Buddhaghosa and his statement that, "There is suffering, but no sufferer". If there is no sufferer than there is no moral imperative either. The moral imperative inheres in the idea that *I* will suffer from bad actions or benefit from good ones.

Whether one's acts are good or bad doesn't seem that relevant to this problem. Both good and bad acts have the same disconnect.

Monday, March 24, 2014

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