1 – 9 of 9
Blogger CPW said...

Hi Jayarava,
I've been reading your raves every Friday for a while now, and I always find the more political ones very stimulating. I hope to discuss these ideas with the Buddhist Society at my University, which is rather younger by default than most Buddhist organisations it seems!
Charlie

Friday, September 05, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

G'day Charlie

I never know how the political stuff comes across - I know I'm outside two standard deviations of the Buddhist norm :-)

I didn't make much notice of politics until post 2008 crash when I happened to hear a guy called Steve Keen on the radio. Following that up led me into a whole new world. I even stopped blogging for a while thinking that I ought to be *doing* more. Ultimately I found that frustrating - political parties are not ways into politics for ordinary folk, they are fund-raising vehicles. There's nothing to engage with. So I'm back to writing. But I do believe we need to think harder about politics and how real world changes are brought about. The hippies were entirely wrong about how to proceed, but they are still running most Western Buddhist organisations. In a generation things will look very different as young fellows like you take over!

I hope your discussion goes well. Greg Schopen is a good source for reading on the economic activities of monks and monasteries. They didn't just handle money, in some cases they were minting coins! I must get back to reading his stuff - a fourth book of collected essays is out now!

Friday, September 05, 2014

Blogger CPW said...

Thanks for the reply! I've been more interested since watching Adam Curtis' 'The Century of the Self' earlier this year, and have also been wondering how to change things myself. He's also quite critical of the 60s counter culture movement, particularly turning away from changing all of society.

I'll have a look at Greg Shopen's writing, thanks for the recommendation!

Friday, September 05, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Adam Curtis is amazing. I'm strongly influenced by him. The films All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace is also very good. He has a way with words and images!

Friday, September 05, 2014

Blogger Tomek said...

Jayarava, please explain to me, how exactly “taking mindfulness into the corporate and political arenas,” which in majority of cases today is done not by some Buddhists but this whole mindfulness industry - which seems nothing else but repackaged version of the old “relaxationism” - is to be “challenging” in any significant (political) way for the neolibertarian elites of modern turbocapitalism?

Friday, September 05, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

As a blogger who has just published a long easy, I always find it interesting when a comment concerns a single sentence within that long essay and displays no sense of having been read in context. It happens all the time. People read - blah, blah, blah - and then a key word triggers an argument they want to have and they assume I'll want to argue with them.

For Tomek this word is "mindfulness". He's given us his view of mindfulness therapies before now. We had an exchange of views on the subject. The very next day Glenn Wallis wrote a coruscating denunciation of my views (as he saw them) using my exchange with Tomek as an example. I thought David Chapman's response in the comments was excellent so I won't say more on that subject.

I don't recognise Tomek's characterisation of mindfulness practitioners or what they teach - it's not what my colleagues teach in their courses. I don't think saying why this is so will change Tomek's mind, but perhaps I ought to contextualise things a little.

I know a little about mindfulness in the UK. I know it was started by Zen Buddhist, John Kabat Zin, in the USA. That's the domain of my knowledge. In the UK there is a highly regarded university course in JKZ based MBSR at Bangor in Wales. Two of my colleagues are involved in teaching that course. Several of my colleagues have attended the course obtaining masters degrees in MBSR, or have trained with JKZ. Of the dozen or so practitioners I know, all have between 20 and 40 years of experience of Buddhist practices. About half are focussed almost entirely on pain management. At my local Buddhist centre we teach MBSR alongside our regular courses in Buddhism and meditation. We offer follow-up courses for the people who want to go deeper: we run MBSR retreats, courses with titles like "Mindfulness and Positive Emotion". These precisely parallel the way we teach Buddhism to new-comers. I know that something similar is happening in other places. I also know that the Oxford Mindfulness Centre is associated with the Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies.

...

Saturday, September 06, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

...


The other area I'm aware of, because Madeline Bunting uses her Guardian column to promote it, are the twin initiatives of mindfulness in schools and the mindfulness group for MPs and senior civil servants. MIS is partnered with the University of Exeter and the University of Cambridge in studying the effects of teaching mindfulness to kids. JKZ is an enthusiastic supporter. Ruby Wax for example, has written about mindfulness in parliament. MIP has already sparked interest at the highest levels, with the Exeter University team leading a submission to the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Well-being Economics earlier this year. My local MP is the Vice Chair. Other MPs have made speeches to parliament [scroll down] about the potential role for mindfulness in dealing with an epidemic of minor mental health problems (and by minor I mean non-psychotic). The UK government is talking about mindfulness.

I know that a couple of my colleagues take mindfulness into the corporate arena. There they introduce the values associated with mindfulness to busy executives. If anyone doubts the value of this, they can read my essay on how to change organisations: You Say You Want a Revolution?

The task at hand is communicating our values to decision makers.

Now, none of this is going to bring down the Neolibertarian hegemony. But in just a decade or so, the mindfulness agenda has made more progress with being a part of the national debate than Buddhism ever has. Mindfulness practitioners are at least in dialogue with the people who might bring about change, the decision makers. There is no other way to affect public policy than by lobbying these people. Buddhism qua religion is completely ineffective in this sense. At the very least we see here a model of effective engagement.

Of course this is all happening in my back-yard. The USA is often different. I can't speak to what is happening in the USA because I don't know about it.

Anyway thanks for commenting Tomek. I understand that mindfulness is your trigger word. But I'm not going to argue the toss with you every time I make a positive comment about mindfulness. Especially after what happened last time. If you have a better plan Tomek, then get your own blog and write about it.

Saturday, September 06, 2014

Blogger Tomek said...

Thanks Jayarava for your interesting comment. Yes, you're right - “mindfulness” buddheme certainly triggers me, especially if it is promulgated not by some neuroscientists or physicians but by thinkers so thoroughly versed in x-buddhist materials as you are. Now, let me say that the fragment/sentence that I singled out above seems nothing else but the key to your whole essay. With all your opposition toward the neoliberal hegemony and at the same time pessimism regarding inefficiency of Buddhism qua religion on the contemporary political arena, interestingly, once again, you zero in on that floating signifier “mindfulness” and its practitioners who would allegedly – through lobbying - “bring about a change.” And it just intrigues me. What really makes you to take this position? I said “once again,” because don't we forget that in our last exchange - one that Glenn used to write his piece that you mentioned about - you even say that mindfulness “is the future of Buddhism.” Now you write that “the mindfulness agenda has made more progress with being a part of the national debate than Buddhism ever has” but don't you think that this is nothing else but simply the sign that Buddhism qua mindfulness has been appropriated, commodified, as everything else, by the Capital's agenda? That the traditional, ascetic Buddhism didn't fit the accepted business model - was for example too uncomfortable because of its relationship to the human desire – and had to be ignored? So maybe this is actually the progress, all the change that mindfulness practitioners might bring about – not to challenge this oppressive order but to skillfully apply the mindfulness techniques to make us even more efficient cogs in the neoliberal machine.

And I did wrote a post on my blog after what happened last time.

Saturday, September 06, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Tomek

I don't zero in on Mindfulness you do. I discuss the idea rarely - by my count twice in the last 9 years. I've written a million words and discussed mindfulness just twice, the second time in passing. But for you it's the only thing that stands out. This says more about you than it does about me. You're shadow boxing. Again.

Having not really read my essay, you pretend to understand me better than I understand myself. On the basis of your self-penetrating insight, you want to denounce me Wallis-fashion in Wallis-words. Perhaps you need to watch The Life of Brian again - you appear to be stuck in a Monty Python sketch about the PFJ.

My time and energy are strictly limited and I've wasted too much of it on responding to you. I'll be more strictly moderating from now on.

Saturday, September 06, 2014

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i>, <a>

Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author.

You will be asked to sign in after submitting your comment.
OpenID LiveJournal WordPress TypePad AOL
Please prove you're not a robot