1 – 8 of 8
Blogger Michael Dorfman said...

Jayarava: We might accurately answer that consciousness is the experience of being aware, of having a sense of agency and a first-person perspective.

I think that's correct, and I think that's what Chalmers is getting at with his "hard problem of consciousness." That "sense of being aware", of qualia, is precisely what is so difficult to line up with matter (if one's project is physical reductionism.) And that's where the neurologists run into trouble; even if we dispense with the theater, there's still the problem of the experience of having experiences.

Saturday, July 28, 2012

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Michael

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. Why is having experiences a problem? And what kind of problem is it? And for whom?

Jayarava

Saturday, July 28, 2012

Blogger Michael Dorfman said...

Having experiences (i.e., what is known in the philosophical literature as qualia) is a problem for those people (neurologists, for example) who are committed to some kind of physicalism/materialism. How something purely material could give rise to the *feeling* of seeing something red, for example, is what is known in the philosophical literature as "the hard problem of consciousness", and it is probably the thorniest open problem in the philosophy of mind.

There are a few broad approaches one can take here, if one wishes to avoid dualism (i.e., a mind which is not reducible to matter.) One could argue that *qualia* don't really exist, and that we are not actually experiencing things at all; we're effectively robots who *think* we are experiencing things. This is known as eliminativism, and the problem with it is fairly obvious.

Another approach is known as epiphenomenalism, which is to argue that mental states are purely side-effects of physical states; unfortunately, this leaves mental states as irrelevant, since they have no causal force; mind, in this conception, cannot cause one to do anything, so free will is illusory.

A third approach is physical reductionism, to argue that mental states are merely physical states-- but that brings us back to the hard problem of consciousness, as we don't have any idea of how something physical could give rise to something like qualia.

Naturally, all of these problems go away in a traditional Buddhist setting, as there is no commitment to materialism-- quite the contrary-- and mental states are taken to exist in their own right (to the extent that anything could be said to exist, of course.)

Saturday, July 28, 2012

Blogger Jayarava said...

You haven't read Thomas Metzinger then?

Saturday, July 28, 2012

Blogger Michael Dorfman said...

Jayarava:You haven't read Thomas Metzinger then?

No, as a matter of fact, I haven't. I suppose I should.

I've read a fairly brutal takedown of him by Raymond Tallis, though-- his recent book "Aping Mankind" does a fairly thorough job of pointing out the holes in most physicalist theories.

Do you find Metzinger convincing? Does he give an adequate account of a purely material basis for experience of qualia?

Sunday, July 29, 2012

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Michael

I don't know who Tallis is. Glancing at reviews of his book I can see how he would be intensely hostile to Metzinger's theory, but the argument is largely an aesthetic one which doesn't interest me.

I'm with Richard Feynman "Science--knowledge--only adds to the excitement, the mystery, and the awe of a flower. It only adds. I don't understand how it subtracts."

On the whole I am not interested in Western theories of mind, as might be obvious from my own writing. However I find Metzinger a compelling writer on the subject of experience precisely because he uses the empirical evidence that is available, and collaborates with neuroscientists. His work follows on to some extent from people like Antonio Damasio. If you're in the same camp as Tallis, the you probably won't like Metzinger. If you like Damasio you'll love Metzinger.

Metzinger refers to his theory of self as Representationalist, and as I recall does not use the language of qualia. I don't either.

Sunday, July 29, 2012

OpenID jonckher said...

Just followed through on your reference to Luhrmann's 2011 paper: Toward an anthropological theory of mind. Makes for very interesting reading.

thanks for that.

Monday, July 30, 2012

Blogger अश्वमित्रः said...

I was expecting someone to mention philosophical zombies. They go with the "hard problem of consciousness". Very cool concept, the philosophical zombie, particularly because they are presumably impossible. More scary is the zimbo, since any of us might be one.

Thursday, August 02, 2012

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i>, <a>

Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author.

You will be asked to sign in after submitting your comment.
OpenID LiveJournal WordPress TypePad AOL
Please prove you're not a robot