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Blogger master_of_americans said...

OT:

Two related questions: have you written anything about/do you know anything interesting about the Koliyas, viz the people who apparently had close ties to the Buddha's own Śākyas?

Secondly, do you know anything about the use of similar names by currently exists castes and classes in India and Nepal. I've noted some people using Shakya as a family name; they seem to be mostly from Nepal or the near environs. There are also some castes that call themselves Shakya, included one that is also known by variants of "Maurya" and also as Kachi, which sounds to me like a prakritised form of "kṣatriya". There is also a Koli caste or ethnic group in northern India.

Monday, August 12, 2013

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

The short answer is no and no.

But the Koliyas were probably part of the migration of originally Iranian tribes that I mention in my writing on the Iranian origins of the Śākyas here and in the Journal of the Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies.

I've no interest in modern people claiming descent from groups loosely recorded in 2000 year old texts. Consider the changes that 2000+ years have rendered in your country! My ancestors were mostly Saxon or Jute and perhaps some Dane from the North, with some Norman blood dating to the conquest of England, but I have almost nothing in common with those forebears who are only 1000-1500 years before the present.

The idea that interest me are not passed down genetic lines, but down institutional lines.

Monday, August 12, 2013

Blogger Dhivan Thomas Jones said...

Hi Jayarava, nice article! I like your concept of a cladistic method of looking at early Buddhist verses. Slightly to one side, did you see Anālayo's paper on the Chinese version of the Āriyapariyesana-sutta in OCBS 1? The episode of Brahmā's request is missing, and Ānalayo hypothesizes that the redacters took it out. On this picture the verses you discuss have an even more interesting and complex history within the textual traditions relating to the story of the Buddha.

Monday, August 12, 2013

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Hi Dhīvan, I hadn't been back to look at the secondary literature, this essay dates from the time you were writing about Brahmā (I ran out of topics as I've been busy house hunting etc). As you say the fact that Brahmā's request is missing is interesting. I may well write this up more fully at a later date and will be sure to look up Anālayo's article.

Cladistics seems to have a lot of potential for ironing out biases.

Monday, August 12, 2013

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