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Anonymous balaji said...

excuse me for a tangential question.

but i'm surprised by your use of the word 'Hindu'. my understanding was, Hindu = Indian. and the 'Hindu Religions' can refer to any Indian religion including Buddhism and Ahmadi-Islam.

can you please clarify if the word Hindu is used in the Buddhist canon? and if so, to mean the Brahmanical religion or the later Shaivik, Vaishnavik and other puranic/tribal Hindu religions?

i mean, is "Hindu" used as the "other" in the buddhist canon?

Saturday, September 25, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Balaji

Interesting question. As I understand it the word 'Hindu' was coined in Persian in the 1660's as a word for India. However in the context of Religion, especially in English, 'Hindu' refers to Hinduism - a blanket term for a whole variety of polytheistic religions of India, which all share belief in a god of some sort. However it only refers to those religions which trace their origin to the Vedas.

Although some Indians disagree, the term generally excludes Buddhism, Jainism, and Islam. Buddhists certainly distinguish themselves from Hinduism. Dr Ambedkar for instance included an explicit rejection of Hinduism in the 22 vows he composed for his followers, for example:

Vow 19. I renounce Hinduism which is harmful for humanity and impedes the advancement and development of humanity because it is based on inequality, and adopt Buddhism as my religion.

The Indian's who disagree are often interested in Hindutva which seeks to see all India, and all Indians in terms of the Hindu religion.

So the word 'Hindu' never occurs in any Indian Buddhist text, in any language, if only because it wasn't in use at that time. There were Pāli words for non-Buddhists but I don't recall them, and can't immediately find them. Hindu's refer to non-Hindu religions as "nāstika" (those who say 'it is not', i.e. those who disagree, or those who do not believe in a creator god).

Present day religions were not present when the Pāli texts were written. Brahmins talk about the sacrifice and other Vedic religious ideas, and there is some evidence that ideas from the early Upaniṣads were known to the Buddhists. No Pūraṇa had yet been written, as far as I know. Mahāyāna texts seem to be more inward looking, and are not concerned with other religions to any great extent. However gradually Buddhists borrowed rituals from especially Śaivas. In Buddhist Tantric texts there is quite a lot of cross-over. However whenever non-Buddhist gods are portrayed in Buddhist texts they are shown as subordinate to the Buddha, and in the case of Śiva, as converting to Buddhism.

Best Wishes
Jayarava

Saturday, September 25, 2010

Blogger Dan said...

Dear J,

Nice blog today. I'm a great fan of misattributions. My favorite one awarded to the Buddha is this:

"The only thing that doesn't change is change itself."

Um... Let's say it's correctly attributed, which it isn't. Does Buddha accept the permanence of anything, change included?

Oh, and one of my favorite fake quotes from the Dalai Lama:

"Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon." (so eminently googleable, I won't bother referencing it)

I'm off to look at your friend's blog of false Buddha quotes. Thanks for the link.

Yours,
D

Saturday, September 25, 2010

Anonymous balaji said...

interesting ...

i think the followers of Hindutva have a problem with definitions!! many may not agree with comparing Hinduism with Hindutva, but we digress.

i think by the 19th century 'Hindoo' and 'Muslim' were commonly used and so Ambedkar's usage is understandable.

but, can you explain how contemporary Buddhist teachers in your order or say the Tibetan or east-asian Buddhism refer to 'Hindu' religions. For example, will a Shaivic religious practice of applying ash over the body, be identified as a Shaivic practice or a Hindu practice?

and in the example you gave above, is Siva referred to as a tantric god or as one in the brahmanical tri-murti or even the puranic Siva?

sorry, if I'm boring with the terminology, but i think definition of the 'other' to some extent drives the philosophical literature of the time.

Jain literature in the late first millennium BC for example would be highly critical of killing and the sacrifices in the Brahmanical religion.
Similarly the Sikh or Kabir-panthi literature of the last few centuries will emphasize abolition of caste differences becos the 'other' is the Brahmanical religion which continues to be the 'establishment' religion.

Saturday, September 25, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

@Dan. Cheers. It was fun to research.

@Balaji. We tend not to distinguish between different Hindu practices - it's all just Hinduism. I realise that not all Hindu's are interested in Hindutva. Most Buddhists in my Order would in fact be surprised to hear that Śiva was included in many Buddhist Tantras. He's seen as Hindu. I think Buddhists who practice Tantra see gods included in their mandalas as having been converted to Buddhism and not Hindu.

I'm never bored by terminology :-) I love it!

Yes, Buddhism is often defined in terms of what it is not. Buddhism in particular defines itself in term of not believing in god, and not believing in soul/ātman. We also reject killing animals and caste prejudice.

I have observed that Buddhist texts are often highly aware of other and the problem of identity - often with a hint of inferiority complex (that is a fear of inferiority, accompanied by strident claims to superiority).

What's more modern Buddhists are often concerned about "false" teachings and teachers, and about what is and isn't Buddhism. We waste a lot of time and energy on these matters.

Best Wishes
Jayarava

Saturday, September 25, 2010

Blogger Dan said...

Dear J&B,

If I may butt in to add my 2 senses (sorry, I used to have 5 or 6), I'd say the normal classical Buddhist Indic-Tibetan term for non-Buddhists (but primarily what we would want or not to call Hindus) is tîrthika (Tib. mutegpa / mu-stegs-pa). In the etymology of the term in both languages, it seems very clear that the people who were originally intended were those who went to holy bathing sites on the banks of rivers ('crossings') or confluences of rivers, as for instance the Kumbha Melak, expecting to be cleansed and liberated thereby (of course, that's another question just how much of Buddhist practice might be characterized in similar ways, but I think I've said what I meant to for now).
There is a lot of discussion in the Siddhânta (Tib. Drupt'a / Grub-mtha') literature about the different kinds of Indian religious groupings (but with more interest paid to ideas rather than practices), some of them going into a significant amount of detail, but I'm not the person to ask about that.
Yours,
D

Sunday, September 26, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Dan

Yes, Thanks 'tīrthaka' was the term I had in mind.

Have you still not got into Unicode diacritics? It changed my life!

Best Wishes
Jayarava

Sunday, September 26, 2010

Blogger Dan said...

Hi J,

I'm waiting for my quantum leap into Leopard, but really, I'm in no hurry. Have unicode diacritics made you into the good person you are today? Perhaps they're more important than I had thought!

Cheers!
D

Thursday, September 30, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Dan,

Unicode is the business. I love being able to type proper Sanskrit/संस्कृत in any app, without any faffing around.

Friday, October 01, 2010

Blogger Sabio Lantz said...

You played the scholar well.
Do you have any connection to people who do nice calligraphy for Japanese/Chinese Characters?
My favorite is:
Yuan (Chinese) or En (Japanese) [see my post]

Note: I have a personal habit of capitalizing transliterated Japanese at the beginning of a new ideograph. Also, I must say, German capitalizes all Nouns -- and English is a Germanic language -- thus there may be deep cognitive biases toward capitals in our brains. :-)

PS - if I have an edit suggestion (typos and stuff, in your post, do you have an e-mail? Mine is myfirstandlastname@gmail.com)

Friday, October 15, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Sabio

I know an expert Tibetan calligrapher, but no Japanese or Chinese.

Yes. Any edit suggestions can go to myname@yahoo.com.

Cheers
Jayarava

Friday, October 15, 2010

Anonymous Bodhipaksa said...

As far as I know, the closest thing in meaning in the Pali canon to "As you think, so you become," is a phrase, "Whatever a monk keeps pursuing with his thinking and pondering, that becomes the inclination of his awareness." That's rather more precise and meaningful, of course, but less quotable. It's found, e.g. in MN 19: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html

Thursday, December 30, 2010

Blogger Jayarava said...

Hi Bodhipakṣa

Funnily enough I recently translated that same phrase in a parallel text - The Cetanā Sutta (SN 12.38, S ii.65-66). My translation goes

What you think about (ceteti), monks, and what you plan for (pakappeti), what obsesses (anuseti), that is the condition (ārammaṇa) of the persistence (ṭhiti) of cognition (viññāṇa).

The Pāli is: Yañca, bhikkhave, ceteti yañca pakappeti yañca anuseti, ārammaṇametaṃ hoti viññāṇassa ṭhitiyā.

This text forms the basis of a blog post coming up in a few weeks (I'm a bit ahead of myself at the moment).

Thursday, December 30, 2010

Blogger A. Jesse Jiryu Davis said...

What an entertaining & well-researched article! I came across this while researching the claim, "Buddhism teaches that everything is in the mind", and have thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

Sunday, October 25, 2015

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